"Fixing" the Wizard


Homebrew and House Rules


Not that the Wizard truely needs fixing, however I do believe that they could use a little help.
1. Not enough spells at low level. This is your characters bread and butter ability, you shouldn't have to ration it for the first five levels like a starving man on a desert island.
2. NO class should be 2+Int for skill points! What happened to the days of the knowledgeable Wizard and wise Cleric being the "sages" of the group?
3. Why the super poor survivability at low level? It's the worst of all the classes and forces low level caster to burn precious spell resources just to survive instead of to succeed.


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1. Give low level spell slots. Take away high level spell slots.
2. Agreed, but given that a Wizard has a focus on Intelligence anyway, it's not something that needs fixing. Besides: it's a Wizard! You want to do something? You cast a spell that does it for you.
3. Wizards have pretty good survivability - provided they use their spells for it. See also point 1.


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The wizard has been, for a very long time, the poster child for quadratic power growth (meaning as you double your level, you don't get twice as powerful, you get four times as powerful). The wizard is already absurdly powerful by the mid-teens levels; starting her from a higher baseline would turn her into an absolute God.

The usual proposals for "fixing" wizards involve bending the power curve and reducing the growth potential, but this also breaks the long-standing "feel" of the wizard, so a lot of players don't like that. (I admit to being one of those players myself.)

2+Int skill points are not really a problem with the wizard (or any Int-based caster); when you're rocking a 24 int (giving you 9 skill points per level), you have all the skills you really want, especially since the "knowledgeable Wizard" really only needs about five skills. It's more of a problem with the Cleric.


Personally, I don't think the wizard needs any fixing. In the long term, it's the most powerful of all the classes. It easily starts outstripping everyone else once 3rd level spells start coming online.

1. Most first level wizards should have three 1st level spells per day (1 base, 1 for high Int, one for spec school). Additionally, he/she will have three cantrips that can be cast a limitless number of times per day. Few campaigns have much more than 3-4 encounters per day, and a first level Wizard with a crossbow is only slightly less good than a 1st level Fighter with a crossbow.

2. 2+Int on an Int based class usually results in 5-6 skill ranks at first level. Of all the 2+Int skill point classes out there, this is the least meaningful on a Wizard. As for an explanation, the Wizard is spending all his time learning magic, not reading up on local goings-on, practicing acrobatics, or learning how to make pottery.

3. It's to balance the absurdly high power they have starting at about 5th level. It also doesn't come into play all that often compared to classes that rush into combat rather than hanging back with ranged stuff like spells.

These are just my opinions on the matter.


1) Some 1st level Wizard spells are so strong that you only need one spell per encounter (I'm looking at you Color Spray). It would be nice to have something spammable, but thats what your crossbow is for.

2) 2+INT is plenty because INT is their main stat. Poor clerics are the only casters that can complain about this.

3) 1st level survivability is OK, with mage armor lasting a whole hour per cast. Since Wizards don't need to sit in melee, they usually aren't taking much damage anyway (especially at 1st level where most enemies are melee only dudes).


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It's important to have your wizard fixed. It's the only way to reduce the population of stray and feral wizards...


A wizard gets 3 or 4 lv1 spells at lv1. +1 if bonded item. That's enough for 1 per fight for an average day. And at lv1 your cantrips aren't to bad either. How many more spells do you think they need? And if you give them more then how are you buffing sorcerer's since their deal is having more spells per day than a wizard.

skill points are low base, but having 6 to 7 skills per level at lv1 is quite good. Getting much more and your wizard is putting ranks into climb just for fun.

survivability:
At lv1 your HP is 6+2(con)+1(fcb) = 9hp. a d8 would have giving you 11, so it's not like you're that much worse off. Everyone has low HP at lv1.
Ac = 10+2(dex)+4(mage armor) = 16. Pretty normal for lv1 it's like a bard in chainshirt.
mage armor works fine as a wand, so just buy or get one of those early and not use a spell per day on it.
Lv1 pearls of power are fairly cheap, so you can get one of those lv2 to help your spells per day.


I personally think every class is starved for skill pts, even the rogue -- just because a rogue needs so many skills! I'm reluctant to use much of the material from Pathfinder Unchained, at least just yet, but I glommed onto their Background Skills idea as soon as I saw it:

Pathfinder Unchained wrote:
The background skills system recognizes that skills such as Craft, Knowledge, and Profession serve an important role in the game. Though these skills don't directly affect the careers of typical adventurers the same way that Bluff, Perception, and Stealth do, they are useful means for characters to interact with and explore the world outside of combat. You shouldn't have to choose between having the knowledge to understand the world and the ability to survive in it!

Admittedly, and properly, they don't allow the most useful Knowledge skills such as arcana or religion as Background skills. Still, it's a way for your wizard to be a wise-art, to spout trivia from history or geography the way they do in literature, without cutting into their core skills. A fighter, meanwhile, can be building up those embarassing, I-look-like-an-idiot skills such as Climb or Swim.

Oh, wait, they didn't have Climb & Swim on their list of available skills! I added them, along with Knowledge (local) & Ride, while removing Perform and Sleight-of-Hand as too class-oriented.

In any case, you might want to take a look.


1) You have scrolls. Or you should have. And when you hit the dizzy heights of 3rd level, you can make other stuff.

2) Not only does your Int increase the number of skills, it makes you implausibly good at the sage-type skills you want. And if you tack on background skills too, you'll have more than you need.

3) Why are you in melee? Get a longspear and a crossbow at 1st level, and you'll never need go within 10' of a monster. Besides, as a SAD character with free feats you can get 14 Con and Toughness, which means 9 hp at 1st level, and as many as a cleric or rogue thereafter. Should be enough.


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I think a return to Prohibited Schools (rather than merely Opposed) would be a good start.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

jeremiah dodson 812 wrote:

Not that the Wizard truely needs fixing, however I do believe that they could use a little help.

1. Not enough spells at low level. This is your characters bread and butter ability, you shouldn't have to ration it for the first five levels like a starving man on a desert island.
2. NO class should be 2+Int for skill points! What happened to the days of the knowledgeable Wizard and wise Cleric being the "sages" of the group?
3. Why the super poor survivability at low level? It's the worst of all the classes and forces low level caster to burn precious spell resources just to survive instead of to succeed.

1. The spells per level table is actually deceptive. Most wizards start with 3 spells per day: 1 from level, 1 from high Intelligence, and 1 from arcane school. If the wizard choose an arcane bonded item, then they get a 4th. And each one of these spells can be used for something that ends a combat. I could understand an argument that wizards don't get enough things to do outside of casting spells, but an argument that they don't get enough spells when they have the highest spells per day out of any prepared spellcaster?

2. 2 + Int is standard for 9-level spellcasters because of the insane amount of utility nine levels of spells provide. Out of all such spellcasters, the wizard is one of the best off. They have Intelligence as their casting ability score and are dependent on a single ability score. Because of this, most wizards will get roughly the same amount of skill points per level as most bards or rogues. In addition, they have good class skills. Wizards don't need a buff here.

3. Wizards have the largest tool set for keeping themselves alive, and never need to be in melee range of enemies.


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You want a very sharp knife, a means of keeping him from struggling, optional anesthetic or analgesic, and a means of sealing the incision. I recommend cauterization.


jeremiah dodson 812 wrote:

Not that the Wizard truely needs fixing, however I do believe that they could use a little help.

1. Not enough spells at low level. This is your characters bread and butter ability, you shouldn't have to ration it for the first five levels like a starving man on a desert island.
2. NO class should be 2+Int for skill points! What happened to the days of the knowledgeable Wizard and wise Cleric being the "sages" of the group?
3. Why the super poor survivability at low level? It's the worst of all the classes and forces low level caster to burn precious spell resources just to survive instead of to succeed.

1 Okay First Wizards start with 2 tier 1 spells. Then they can get +1 from intelligence bonus, +1 from arcane bond on an item, and +1 from Arcane School. The differences in spells is that Magic Missile is to weak to be useful, but Sleep, Grease, and Color Spray are quite useful. Wizards arent really good "blasters" for a while.

2 I agree. Fighter, wizard, and cleric all have below average skills. It makes them seem mentally handicapped. A wizard at least specializes in Intelligence for starting with 18 Intelligence give you 6 skills points per level, with more as you upgrade your intelligence and equip items.

3 The lack of durability is due to spell failure while wearing armor and lack of proficiency. Mage Armor is an important spell to help this but it lacks duration early on.

Largest problem with spells is that they are either weak or very strong even at early levels. Rules that try to keep them from being powerful at higher levels are flat disadvantages early on. Mage Armor would be really useful if it lasted 24hours so you need a Wand. The main answer to most early Wizard problems are Wands for regular attacks and Mage Armor.

You would have to make a system of Magic Points as a resource to counter this.

At that point physical classes are almighty, being hard to hit, highest chance tot hit, and high damage.


One 'limiter' might be to spread thing out on the wizard: for example have bonus spells, maximum spells known etcetera on intelligence but have save dcs attached to a second stat, say wisdom, making wizards more 'MAD'


I don't think the wizard itself needs much fixing, although there are several spells that need to be nerfed. I'd rather see other classes brought up a few notches; in a party with a bunch of tier 3 classes, the wizard is still ahead of the power curve, but at least everyone is playing in the same stadium.

As things currently stand, I encourage the use of either an arcane scoundrel or warlock, both of which make for a solid 6th level caster stand in for the wizard. Or the use of either spheres of power or ultimate psionics


Wizards have already been nerfed like crazy since the start of 3.0, they need nerfing like you need to have an arm cut off.

Spheres of Power and Psionics, being 3pp, have a poor chance of acceptance at most tables. Psionics may have many similarities with wizardry, but are a different animal, with its own strengths and weaknesses anyway.


kyrt-ryder wrote:
You want a very sharp knife, a means of keeping him from struggling, optional anesthetic or analgesic, and a means of sealing the incision. I recommend cauterization.

Let me guess... you're a veterinarian?


Klorox wrote:
Wizards have already been nerfed like crazy since the start of 3.0, they need nerfing like you need to have an arm cut off.

Wizards are still arguably the strongest class in the game, and their only competition comes from other fullcasters.

I'll admit that I prefer buffing other classes to nerfing the wizard, but the wizard could get nerfed a bit and still be quite playable.


If the 'solution' is making every class into a caster and removing anyone remotely mundane, not all that interested.


RDM42 wrote:
If the 'solution' is making every class into a caster and removing anyone remotely mundane, not all that interested.

Not making ever class a caster, but things like Roland striking a mountain hard enough to create a pass, or Zhang Fei holding a bridge against an army, unmaning them with a mighty shout!


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RDM42 wrote:
If the 'solution' is making every class into a caster and removing anyone remotely mundane, not all that interested.

Mundane dies by level 9 and starts dying by level 5.


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The issues with wizards have been discussed at length, and so I won't comment on the mid-to-high level wizard concerns. One thing I do find frustrating (in hind-sight after playing 5th edition D&D) is how ultra lame Pathfinder 0-level spells are. 1d3 damage? What the hell is the point of that? Changing 0-level magic to at-will was a wonderful change from 3.5 but it didn't go far enough.

In my opinion low level spell casters should have the ability to deal at least 1d6 or 1d8 damage with their magic at will. Otherwise they run out of steam extremely quickly and are better off using a crossbow, which thematically is super lame when compared to the magic they wield.


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I'm 100% with this, the Wizard needs a fix. I mean, people on these boards call them gods and they're considered the strongest class already HOWEVER! - This is not true, not at all.
A Wizard can not, I repeat, CAN NOT wear armor. Even the Rogue can, so seriously, this needs a fix. I mean, they're supposed to be intelligent, so they should be able to figure out how to.
Speaking of Rogues, they also get 8+Int skill ranks per level, while Wizards on get 2+Int. This means that the Wizard will always be 6 skill ranks behind any equally intelligent Rogue.
Further more, a Wizard only gets a BAB increase at every second level - How can it be the strongest class if it can't actually swing a sword properly?

On the off chance that the OP isn't baiting:
1) They have cantrips at level 1 (and almost no class has anything at level 1). At level 2 they already got plenty of 1st level spells. At 3rd level they're starting to climb the spell levels.

2) 2 skill ranks are nothing to sob about in the case of the Wizard. Because it's not 2 per level. Unlike most other classes, the Wizard will need an Int of at least 19 in the end, resulting in 6 skill ranks per level (at least). My last Wizard had 10 per level (2+7+human), the highest amount in the group (even though we buffed everyone else up to at least 4+Int).

3) And this is where the troll bait started to stink really bad.


kyrt-ryder wrote:
RDM42 wrote:
If the 'solution' is making every class into a caster and removing anyone remotely mundane, not all that interested.
Mundane dies by level 9 and starts dying by level 5.

And you are literally considered legendary starting at level 11. That's when you can be the subject of a legend lore spell.


Rub-Eta wrote:


Speaking of Rogues, they also get 8+Int skill ranks per level, while Wizards on get 2+Int. This means that the Wizard will always be 6 skill ranks behind any equally intelligent Rogue.

... or behind any cleric with an intelligence 14 points greater than the wizard's, which is about as likely to happen. Rogues need to spread their attribute points around a lot more, while wizards are one of the textbook examples of a class that needs only one high attribute to function. In fact, Intelligence is one of the stats that rogues are often recommended to dump.

This site lists over a dozen sample rogue builds; none of them are as Intelligence-focused as Ezren, the pregenerated iconic wizard. Or even as Seltyiel, the iconic magus.

The wizard is one of the strongest classes in part because it doesn't need to be able to swing a sword or wear armor, because it has the ability to stop a combat before it happens, or even to prevent it entirely. A fireball can empty a room, as can color spray -- and with appropriate travel spells, whether teleport or spider climb, there is no need for the encounter to take place in the first place. It's very easy to solve the Dread Tower of Doom when you can just Spider-man up the side of the tower and take the jewel from the room at the top.


jeremiah dodson 812 wrote:

Not that the Wizard truely needs fixing, however I do believe that they could use a little help.

1. Not enough spells at low level. This is your characters bread and butter ability, you shouldn't have to ration it for the first five levels like a starving man on a desert island.
2. NO class should be 2+Int for skill points! What happened to the days of the knowledgeable Wizard and wise Cleric being the "sages" of the group?
3. Why the super poor survivability at low level? It's the worst of all the classes and forces low level caster to burn precious spell resources just to survive instead of to succeed.

1. Wizards have plenty of spells at low level, plus they get Scribe Scroll for free so they have options to bank spells for when they are needed. I believe having to be careful about each spell spent is perfectly in theme for a wizard, especially a novice.

2. The skill pts per level discussion has been done to death. I would argue that the wizard's unmatched mastery of magic comes at the price of having time to learn mundane skills. Being Int based casters generally means that they have skills enough for their role.

3. The number of wizards that I've moved well past the lowe levels would belie that claim. Wizards make up for their poor hp and AC by the fact that they are not expected to frontline. It helps in my case that every character I make has at least a 12 con and if I think survival is going to be an issue, they'll start with toughness. so that's 10 hp for my usual 1st level wizard.


Rub-Eta wrote:

I'm 100% with this, the Wizard needs a fix. I mean, people on these boards call them gods and they're considered the strongest class already HOWEVER! - This is not true, not at all.

A Wizard can not, I repeat, CAN NOT wear armor. Even the Rogue can, so seriously, this needs a fix. I mean, they're supposed to be intelligent, so they should be able to figure out how to.
Speaking of Rogues, they also get 8+Int skill ranks per level, while Wizards on get 2+Int. This means that the Wizard will always be 6 skill ranks behind any equally intelligent Rogue.
Further more, a Wizard only gets a BAB increase at every second level - How can it be the strongest class if it can't actually swing a sword properly?

I cant tell if youre sarcastic or not. Now that i think about it, this is probably just a continuation of a discussion since the 1970s.

Armor is very useful, but certain spells diminish that important quite a bit. Fly means melee cant hit you. Mage Armor gives a +4 armor(equivalent of Chain Shirt). Shield adds another +4 to AC and can combine with mage Armor. Protection from Missles is a damage reduction of 10 versus non-magical ranged attacks.

Fighters have equipment. Rogues have skills. Wizards have spells.


quibblemuch wrote:
It's important to have your wizard fixed. It's the only way to reduce the population of stray and feral wizards...

I think this exact thing when politicians talk about fixing the economy.


@Orfamay Quest & ChaosTicket: Is the bait tasty?

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