Fencing Grace Question


Rules Questions


Okay, so I have read this FAQ that pertains to Slashing Grace, and since Fencing Grace has the same wording, I'm applying the FAQ to Fencing Grace as well.

My question is does holding something in the other hand, like a torch or a rope, negate the benefits of Fencing Grace? Does Fencing Grace require the other hand to be empty, or can you hold something as long as you aren't either attacking with it or using it for defense? This is for non-PFS play.


It seems to depend on if the hand is "occupied". So, if you are holding a buckler in that hand, you can still use that hand for other things, such as holding other items. I would say that a torch occupies a hand, but the rope would depend on what you are doing with it and how big the rope is. But in general, the rope would occupy the hand too.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Paizo reprinted Fencing Grace in Ultimate Intrigue with the following modifications from the original:

Fencing Grace (Combat)
Your dashing style and fluid rapier forms allow you to use
agility rather than brute force to fell your foes.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus
(rapier).
Benefit: When wielding a rapier one-handed, you can
add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength
modifier to that weapon’s damage. The rapier must be
one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit
while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows,
or anytime another hand is otherwise occupied.
In addition, if you have the panache class feature, you
gain a +2 bonus to your CMD against attempts to disarm
you of your rapier while you have at least 1 panache point.

Per that change, the hand does have to be empty.

There are a few items like Swordmaster's Flair that can be held in hand and still have that hand be counted as empty.

Also, remember that bucklers are not held in hand, as they are strapped to the wrist. You can gain the benefit of a buckler without sacrificing dex to damage from fencing grace.


The glove weapons, like gauntlet and cestus, also shouldn't "occupy" the hand, even though they are on the hands.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
GM Phntm888 wrote:
My question is does holding something in the other hand, like a torch or a rope, negate the benefits of Fencing Grace? Does Fencing Grace require the other hand to be empty, or can you hold something as long as you aren't either attacking with it or using it for defense? This is for non-PFS play.

The hand has to be empty and unused (e.g. even if it is empty you can't use it to cast a spell). The only known exceptions to this are a buckler, which is actually worn on the arm rather than the hand, or a Swordmaster's Flair.

The swordmaster's flair is a bit contradictory as it needs to be grasped in the hand, but otherwise you aren't allowed to hold anything in the hand.


So, the definition of "occupied" when it comes to a hand is "holding any object, regardless of size or use", the exception being Swordmaster's Flair, correct?


GM Phntm888 wrote:
So, the definition of "occupied" when it comes to a hand is "holding any object, regardless of size or use", the exception being Swordmaster's Flair, correct?

It's purposefully left vague as to what counts as "occupied". Bucklers are merely given as an example of something that does not occupy the hand. But in general, a hand that is holding something counts as occupied. Swordmaster's Flair actually does occupy the hand, but has specific text to allow it to work anyway.


Okay. Thank you very much for all your help.

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