Alternate Racial Features - Down with Attribute Bonuses and Penalties!


Homebrew and House Rules

Grand Lodge

Hey gang, I could use your help. I'm trying to redesign Pathfinder's races. My primary goal is to maintain the overall theme of each race, keeping some mechanical benefits, while eliminating attribute bonuses and penalties.

In my opinion, that +2/-2 attribute nonsense is archaic RPG design that needs to go. While intended to showcase the differences between each race, all it really does is make some race/class choices almost mandatory (elf wizard, etc) and others so gimped that they're really only played as joke/gimmick builds (dwarf sorcerer, halfling barbarian, etc).

Okay, maybe you agree with all that, maybe you don't. Whatever. The point here is that I'd like to eliminate attribute bonuses and penalties, as well as alternate favored class bonuses (which only worsen the problem... why play anything but a half-elf summoner?).

So, what would you do to redesign each race that preserves its "feel" while abandoning the clunky old attribute stuff?


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Forgive any typos as I'm posting from my phone.

Maybe give each race a pool of abilities that thematically match each race, with a few that are synergistic with certain classes and let the player choose a set number of of these traits to make their character more or less elfy?

Grand Lodge

Ooh, good idea! Maybe we come up with 5 solid abilities for each race and let players choose 3. Thanks!


I'd like to replace the stat bonus with a free feat.

Ex: Dwarves get toughness for free.
Humans get fast learner (regardless of int)
Halflings get mobility
Elves get combat reflexes
Half Orcs get intimidating prowess
Half Elves get additional traits

This just replaces the stats. Humans still get skilled and bonus feats, dwarves still get hardy, etc etc.

So now playing a dwarf paladin isn't idiotic, nor is an elven fighter.


@OP: Is it that races are locked into their racial ability score modifiers? Or is the problem the racial ability score modifiers at all?
If the problem is the first mentioned: Allow players to switch them up a bit (some dwarves are probably better scholar material than they are druids and some elves are probably better druids than they are scholars). Or just give all races a +2 human-style.

@Grumbaki: While it does seem like a good idea, it becomes a problem when all the differences are eliminated by gaining new feats, since you can't pick feats more than once (how would a Dwarf and an Elf be any different from each other when they've picked up combat reflexes or toughness, respectively?).


Rub-Eta wrote:

@OP: Is it that races are locked into their racial ability score modifiers? Or is the problem the racial ability score modifiers at all?

If the problem is the first mentioned: Allow players to switch them up a bit (some dwarves are probably better scholar material than they are druids and some elves are probably better druids than they are scholars). Or just give all races a +2 human-style.

@Grumbaki: While it does seem like a good idea, it becomes a problem when all the differences are eliminated by gaining new feats, since you can't pick feats more than once (how would a Dwarf and an Elf be any different from each other when they've picked up combat reflexes or toughness, respectively?).

Well a dwarf is still 20ft movement (irregardless of armor or burden), hates orcs, and is magic resistant.

An elf still has their own racial traits...

So in general an elf is still the 'better' choice for a mate and a dwarf the 'better' choice for fighter. But neither have to conform to that.

You could also have a boosted version of the feat only available to that race. Such as extra AC for the halfling against AAOs or extra HP for the dwarves.

Grand Lodge

Rub-Eta wrote:

@OP: Is it that races are locked into their racial ability score modifiers? Or is the problem the racial ability score modifiers at all?

If the problem is the first mentioned: Allow players to switch them up a bit (some dwarves are probably better scholar material than they are druids and some elves are probably better druids than they are scholars). Or just give all races a +2 human-style.

I guess my beef is that they're locked, but if you unlock them, why have them at all? At that point, everyone spends their point buy however they want and you don't need a free +2 at all for individuality, just for min-maxing. I'd rather just get rid of attribute bonuses and penalties altogether. Yes, I know some people will flip their gaming table if they can't start with a 20 in their primary stat, but whatever. :)

Grand Lodge

Grumbaki wrote:

I'd like to replace the stat bonus with a free feat.

Ex: Dwarves get toughness for free.
Humans get fast learner (regardless of int)
Halflings get mobility
Elves get combat reflexes
Half Orcs get intimidating prowess
Half Elves get additional traits

This just replaces the stats. Humans still get skilled and bonus feats, dwarves still get hardy, etc etc.

So now playing a dwarf paladin isn't idiotic, nor is an elven fighter.

That's an interesting idea and certainly much easier to balance, but I think I'd rather come up with something new and unique for each race.


Headfirst wrote:
I guess my beef is that they're locked, but if you unlock them, why have them at all? At that point, everyone spends their point buy however they want and you don't need a free +2 at all for individuality, just for min-maxing. I'd rather just get rid of attribute bonuses and penalties altogether. Yes, I know some people will flip their gaming table if they can't start with a 20 in their primary stat, but whatever. :)

Get them to motivate the changes, make them prove that they have an idea. Simply "I want 20" isn't cutting it.

But otherwise, why do you feel the need to replace the racial modifiers? +/-2 isn't that much (I guess it means 2 to 7 or the difference between 18 and 20 for a point-buy min-maxer). Most substitutes will more or less be a translation of those racial modifier into other mechanics (granting dwarves toughness instead of +2 CON only removes 1 from Fort and 2 from their negative hp limit before they die, for example), unless you can muster some very far-out ideas (which I wouldn't recommend to factor into player's race selection).


If you remove ability score bonuses entirely then you have shifted a lot of the numbers of all PCs and 0HD race based NPCs down by 1.

If the intent isn't to have sweeping numeric changes across all characters, then I would suggest giving every race a human style floating +2

Grand Lodge

Rub-Eta wrote:
Headfirst wrote:
I guess my beef is that they're locked, but if you unlock them, why have them at all? At that point, everyone spends their point buy however they want and you don't need a free +2 at all for individuality, just for min-maxing. I'd rather just get rid of attribute bonuses and penalties altogether. Yes, I know some people will flip their gaming table if they can't start with a 20 in their primary stat, but whatever. :)

Get them to motivate the changes, make them prove that they have an idea. Simply "I want 20" isn't cutting it.

But otherwise, why do you feel the need to replace the racial modifiers? +/-2 isn't that much (I guess it means 2 to 7 or the difference between 18 and 20 for a point-buy min-maxer). Most substitutes will more or less be a translation of those racial modifier into other mechanics (granting dwarves toughness instead of +2 CON only removes 1 from Fort and 2 from their negative hp limit before they die, for example), unless you can muster some very far-out ideas (which I wouldn't recommend to factor into player's race selection).

Yes, +/-2 isn't that much, but it does make some races unquestioningly superior for some classes than others, which, to me, is a problem. Once again, I understand people might not agree with this and that's fine. This post isn't here to ask if people think it's a good idea; it's here to gather ideas on what to replace attribute bonuses and penalties with.

Grand Lodge

Snowblind wrote:

If you remove ability score bonuses entirely then you have shifted a lot of the numbers of all PCs and 0HD race based NPCs down by 1.

If the intent isn't to have sweeping numeric changes across all characters, then I would suggest giving every race a human style floating +2

Yeah, I'm not at all worried about taking PCs down a notch. As others have pointed out, over the years, Pathfinder power creep has favored PCs. Every few months, they get new classes, new feats, and entirely new features that add to their power (traits, archetypes, favored-class bonuses, etc), while very little has been added to the monster side of the equation.

This isn't to say I think monsters need a boost or that I want PCs to lose more often, it's just that the original game was setup so that X amount of PC power was a good match for Y amount of monster power. Over the years, X has grown to 3X or 4X but Y has pretty much stayed the same, so I'm not going to lose any sleep about PCs losing +2 to an attribute. :)

Owner - Gator Games & Hobby

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In 13th Age you choose a stat bonus from your race and a stat bonus from your class. You can't choose the same one twice which means that you can always have a bonus to your primary stat while still keeping the flavor the races. (E.g Dwarves give a +2 to Con or Wis, and Paladins give a +2 bonus to Str or Cha)

Grand Lodge

Cwethan wrote:
In 13th Age you choose a stat bonus from your race and a stat bonus from your class. You can't choose the same one twice which means that you can always have a bonus to your primary stat while still keeping the flavor the races. (E.g Dwarves give a +2 to Con or Wis, and Paladins give a +2 bonus to Str or Cha)

I love that idea, too! Thanks!


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If you want to make new content for each race you're probably going to need to quantify how much racial stat bonuses are 'worth'.

Most of them have +2 to 2 stats, and -2 to one. I believe there is a human alternate racial ability where you can trade away your extra feat for another +2 racial stat buff. If we quantify things based on that, we could say that each +2 buff is equal to one feat.

From there you could decide to either give each race two original feats and a flaw, or perhaps just say that the -2 racial penalty cancels out the other racial bonus and give each race only 1 original feat.

I would refer to the material that helps with designing new feats and go from there. Also, using pre-made designs of feats and reallocating certain facets of them could help lessen the work load for you, because how they applied it they probably screened those feats in testing and said that they weren't overpowered. Less headaches down the road, assuming you actually use these home rules as opposed to this just being a fleeting exercise.

I think this is a very cool proposition. The modifier metagame in pathfinder seems so cutthroat at times, and this is a way to alleviate that while diversifying the mechanical expression of each races' lore.

I would go with the two feats and a flaw route if I were you.

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