So I've been working on a homebrew setting, and while I'm not interested in a low magic setting, I am interested in a less flashy magic setting. So my question is, how much would I bork the game if I were to take out the arcane casting classes and just use divine and psychic classes?
So long as you have an game reason for there being no arcane magic then you should be fine. In this case magic only comes from Divine sources and what ever gives psychic magics. Just make sure there are no situations where only arcane magic would work.
You could build a world the had arcane magics striped from it by the Gods or that it was simply a type of magic that never existed.
A lot of monsters would change. I am assuming that you are still using the Pathfinder system. Most Fey and dragons have natural spells that are pulled from the sorcerer list so those would have to be rebuilt.
What is the reason that you picked arcane magics to be the one removed?
I chose arcane magic over either of the other two is more for the "feel" I want on the setting. I'm looking to do a more subtle atmospheric horror campaign and just the idea of a player saying, "I throw a fireball at it" doesn't really work with what I'm picturing.
Imagine something closer to say Penny Dreadful instead of a more classic fantasy series.
You could also limit PCs to sixth-level spells, though it'd take more work. That would really cut down on the flash.
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That sounds weirdly like "don't do a homebrew world/homebrew RPG", which isn't hugely helpful to this thread. I'm not sure you get the point of this thread, actually—they aren't asking for your opinion because you'll be playing, they're asking because they're hoping for game design advice.
If you think the change is too drastic to be worth the effort, could you explain why? I think that's the best way to help the OP out here. They're asking what removing thee arcane classes might mess up.
I'm no game design nerd, and it's 2:49 am so I should really be heading to bed before I do something dumb (like maybe say I'm not a game design nerd when I'm up at 3 in the morning talking about game design), but off the top of my head: You lose a lot of utility and terrain control spells like grease, charm person, and identify. Look carefully at your encounters, including traps and barriers, and consider what will be harder to manage. Many barriers become impassable without teleportation and flight, for instance, and swarms will be much deadlier. Incorporeals, too, become a bigger hassle (not just because of the loss of magic missile, but because it's basically all on the cleric to enchant people's weapons and deal the heavy hits).
Clerics become the most powerful class in the game, though they still suck at skills, so who cares? Maybe druids are really the best now.
Personally I say, why remove all arcane casters? Seems like bards, at the very least, could fit in this setting.
Also, I'm pretty sure psychics and clerics can pull off some pretty major "I fireball it" effects. I'd look into that and make sure you don't mind what they can do. When in doubt, get rid of all the 9th-level casters. That's the surest way to accomplish this. It's also the most drastic. :P
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I'm all about unflashy magic. I would say that arcane caster banning is one way to go for sure, but there might be other avenues which could be less restrictive to your players and still align with the mood you're envisioning for your setting.
Essentially, my advice would to be just go through all the spell lists and write down the offenders, and then tell your party that this sort of magic just doesn't exist in your setting.
You could go about that venture several different ways, depending on how keen your group is. You could exhaustively run through each spell list, or you could just have an up front blanketing 'no blast spells' rule. Painless.
You could also in tandem with that idea is use the caster level progression limit to 6th level spells. I think there's a name for games like that somewhere...
I'm looking to do a more subtle atmospheric horror campaign and just the idea of a player saying, "I throw a fireball at it" doesn't really work with what I'm picturing.
Divine casters can have fireballs too, at least by Fire domain or Flame mystery. The same might apply to other spells you find too flashy.
I'd let them their fireballs etc. for a horror game. But I'd also make sure these spells can have horrible side effects:
A creature lets the fireball fly back to the caster.
It eats the fireball and becomes stronger by it.
The fireball can simply disappear, with no immediate explanation.
It kills multiple innocents.
etc. etc.
Remember, horror comes up when reliable things (your friends, your family, your sheeps, your chair etc.) turn against you. This can also work with the spells you rely on. Don't overdo it though, spells are the major feature of full casters, and they should work in the majority of cases. This is more satisfying for the player - and increases the horror in the cases where it does not work.
I wouldn't worry too much about rebuilding non 0HD/low CR monsters that use arcane spells. You can just handwave them as psychic abilities, or just let them do something special. Monsters are allowed to do things that PCs can't, and as long as what they doesn't become overpowered in the absence of access to arcane magic, it shouldn't be an issue.
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You could accomplish it with just eliminating nearly all of the evocation, transmutation, and conjuration spells. Maybe illusion too
So I've been working on a homebrew setting, and while I'm not interested in a low magic setting, I am interested in a less flashy magic setting. So my question is, how much would I bork the game if I were to take out the arcane casting classes and just use divine and psychic classes?
Just a few thoughts off the top:
- Your decision will eliminate the following classes: Arcanist, Bard, Bloodrager, Skald, Sorcerer, Summoner, Witch, and Wizard. That's eliminating some major buffer/debuffer classes. I can't remember playing without an arcane caster, so I don't know what this will do to encounter difficulty, but I can't imagine it will make encounters easier.
- Your decision will affect the Minor Magic and Major Magic talents of the Rogue class. Elimination of these talents seems to me to be an unwarranted nerf. Altering this talent to work with Alchemist Extracts or Psychic Magic may have some weird results, though.
- Your decision will affect the Shaman's Lore power, Arcane Enlightenment.
- Your decision may cause confusion to feats (Eldritch Heritage for one) and Magic Items (what happens when you try to create an item that requires a spell that no longer exists?),
- Your decision may cause confusion with the Munk's (that is Unchained Monk) Qinggong powers, since some of them resemble arcane spells.
That being said, have fun! I'm a fan of mods instead of bans, so I'd like to see how Psychic Bards or Alchemical Bloodragers work in your setting. Cheers!
I haven't ever really thought about game design this way before, but I'm gonna throw my ideas in anyway.
I second the suggestions of a few posters above in that you simply declare all "blast spells" off limits, for all casters.
This includes: any spell that deals direct, one time damage, especially if the phrase "(1d6/level, max Xd6)" is in the spell at any point.
If you do want to get rid of all arcane spellcasters, does that include all of the classes above (Arcanist, Bard, Bloodrager, Magus, Summoner/Unchained Summoner, Sorceror, Witch, Wizard, and any archetype that might make classes arcane, plus any SLA features)? That's fine if that's what you want, just know what your "no arcane" decision means.
An alternative to just banning everything like this is to require them to use archetypes/bloodlines that make their spells non-arcane or just give them up altogether (Psychic Bloodline for Sorcerors/Blood Arcanists, Untouchable Rager/Id Rager for Bloodragers, etc).
And as to the monsters with arcane magic, it's actually probably okay to leave them in as-is, but just make the spells act as divine or psychic, dependent on the creatures' flavor.
There isn't much need to alter the game that much.
I chose arcane magic over either of the other two is more for the "feel" I want on the setting. I'm looking to do a more subtle atmospheric horror campaign and just the idea of a player saying, "I throw a fireball at it" doesn't really work with what I'm picturing.
Imagine something closer to say Penny Dreadful instead of a more classic fantasy series.
Instead of eliminating arcane magic, you might consider P6. Editing the spell lists would be simpler if limited to max 3rd level spells. Horror might be easier to accomplish as well.
Going to watch an episode of Penny Dreadful to get an idea of what you want.
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Lot of great ideas posted here for me to look over, and I can't believe that I actually didn't think of just removing the blasty spells from play, when I get a little bit more work done on my rules and setting document I'll be sure to post it here.