Does this combination work with the Duelist Prestige Class?


Advice


Level 1: Brawler (martial flexibility)
Level 2: Brawler (Get's brawler's fury)

Brawler's Fury (May do this as a full round action, as if though using two weapon fighting. May attack with any combination of unarmed strikes and weapons from the close fighter weapon group, or weapons with the monk special feature.)

Levels 3-6: Fighter (Lore Warden and Learned Duelist)

Duelist Stance (+1 dodge bonus to AC so long as wearing light armor, wielding a melee weapon in one hand, and the other hand is empty)

So stating at level 3, may use brawler's fury. This gives 1 attack with the weapon, another attack with the unarmed strike. Still get the +1 AC from the Duelist Stance, as only one hand is holding a weapon. The key word here is that "one hand is empty."

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It seems to me that the biggest downside of having a learned duelist is that your offhand becomes wasted, because it can't hold a weapon and an unarmed strike usually can't be used as the offhand weapon. But Brawler's Fury explicitly changes that rule...

The only 'downside' that I see from this is that the offhand attack is capped at 1d6. It also slows down the learned duelist/lore warden for 2 levels, meaning that "duelist training" and "know thy enemy" come 2 levels later. But this is made up for it with the extra attack and martial flexibility, which opens up a world of different options. Things like "blind fight" are so situational that there is little reason to take them, but martial flexibility gives it to you as a move action whenever the situation arises. That's pretty worth it, as far as I can see.

Also, with martial training and martial flexibility, the character gets access to stunning fist at level 1. This lets the character move into combat, and as they can't make a full action, can try to stun the enemy. Something that two weapon fighting characters struggle at doing (ie: being useful outside of full actions)

So, is this is a legal combination?


Also forgot to add this question: Can Brawler's Flurry be used with this?

Precise Strike (Ex)

For many of the class features of the duelist, a requirement is to be using a light or one-handed piercing weapon. This must also be a melee weapon; a duelist cannot use such class abilities with a ranged-only weapon or thrown-only weapon.
A duelist gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing weapon, adding her duelist level to her damage roll.

When making a precise strike, a duelist cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield. A duelist's precise strike only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also immune to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike.


Any character can make offhand strikes with an unarmed strike. 'Wielding' an unarmed strike in your offhand would cancel the Duelist Precise Strike feature (since it's a weapon); some might say it would also cancel Duelist Stance due to the whole 'metaphorical hands' thing (though I think that whole world of interpretation has gotten out of hand).

The key thing with Brawler is that you're allowed to make all of your 'Two-Weapon Fighting' attacks with one weapon, so you can make all of your Brawler's Flurry strikes with a weapon in one hand and just leave the other hand open. Instead of worrying about using unarmed strike offhand, you can just flurry away with a one-handed weapon like 9-ring broadsword or temple sword.

Martial Flexibility at low level is rather weak in my opinion, since you only get a few uses per day and you lose an important action to use it. I would actually consider using Snakebite Striker Brawler up to level 3 and taking Improved Feint (Lore Warden already gifts you Combat Expertise anyways and Brawler meets the INT 13 prerequisite) and Accomplished Sneak Attacker (for a total of 2d6 Sneak Attack). That way, you can move up to a target and feint with one move action, then standard attack with Sneak Attack. To build on that, you could take things like Two-Weapon Feint and/or Greater Feint + Improved Trip + Greater Trip + Felling Smash.

Stunning Fist requires +8BAB, and it's a very weak effect unless you have a ton of wisdom.


If you want to be a duelist, what are you looking for? You should look at the Swordlord archetype for the fighter. That sounds like what you're trying to do and it replaces all the wasted armor buffs, since as a duelist you wear only light. Have you also considered rolling a swashbuckler?


If you don't want to be straight fighter, and are truly interested in multi-classing, have you considered taking a couple levels as a Magus?


Thanks for the advice. I actually haven't considered a swashbuckler. That seems to be the easiest way to go to get this duelist concept down without too much complication. Thank you for that!

For a build idea...how about the following?

(*) Inspired Duelist
(*) Half-Elf
(*) Str (7) Dex (18) Con (14) Int (14) Wis (9) Cha (14)
(*) Racial Bonuses:
* Drow Blooded (Darkvision 60ft, light blindness)
* Drow Magic (Can cast dancing lights, darkness, and faerie fire each once per day, using the half-elf's character level as the caster level for these spell-like abilities.)
* Elven Immunities (+2 on saves vs. enchantment and immune to sleep)
* Keen Senses (+2 perception)
(*) Feats
* Weapon Focus (Rapier)
* Swashbuckler Finesse (Rapier: Dex to hit)
* Fencing Grace (Rapier: Dex to damage, +2 CMD against disarm when he has at least 1 panache point)
(*) Traits
* Adopted (Drow) -> Arcane Prodigy (Once per day as an immediate action, you can double the duration of one of your racial spell-like abilities, as if using the Extend Spell metamagic feat)
* Indomitable Faith (From sky key solution - +1 Will Saves)
* Reactionary (+2 initiative)
(*) Equipment
* Chain Shirt (+4 AC, max +4 Dex AC)
* Buckler (+1 AC)
* Rapier (1d6, 18-20 crit, x2)

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The idea...

(1) Half-Drow. Gets darkvision and darkness. Darkness can drop the light down so against most enemies he gets a 20-50% dodge chance. Faerie Fire is also useful for the party if someone doesn't have darkvision and we are in a low light/darkness...even one that I create.

(2) Level 4 for the bonus feat take Arcane Strike. This goes with the drow magic, giving him as a swift action +1 damage (goes up to +2 at lvl 5 and +3 at lvl 10). The level 8 bonus feat quick draw. This would go along with swashbuckler initiative, and allow him to use throwing weapons fairly decently when not engaged in combat.

(3) For level feats, take half-drow paragon at lvl 3, drow nobility at lvl 5, improved drow nobility at lvl 7, greater drow nobility at lvl 9, and finally Noble Spell Resistance at lvl 11.

All in all, this pathline gives him useful spells (constant detect magic, feather fall, levitate, deeper darkness) 2 times per day each. And most importantly, at lvl 11, spell resistance 22.

(4) With the 3 stat advancements, he could go: +1 Wis, +2 Dex. Ending at Str (7) Dex (20) Con (14) Int (14) Wis (10) Cha (14)

For PFS, would this be a decent build? It certainly gives up alot of feats to get those spell like abilities and the spell resistance...but the idea of getting a 20-50% dodge chance against most enemies just seems like too good of an option to pass up. The spell resistance especially looks great for end game, given that you need 1d20+caster level to overcome. At SR22, a lvl 11 caster has a 50% chance at spell failure. I don't know of any other feat tree which can offer that kind of protection.


You can't take Arcane Strike based on having a Spell-Like Ability, at least not anymore.

That's a brutally low STR, with the maximum carrying capacity being 23lbs. You can't even have a chain shirt without getting weighed-down.

Inspired Blade is great for the extra Panache and free Weapon Focus, and it's horrible for not getting Panache when you kill something. Use with caution.

Playing with illumination won't work against many enemies, and it may have very negative consequences for allies unless you're taking the time and effort to try to fix that issue. It's not bad per se, but it has issues.


Ah, I see. I didn't take that into consideration. I was mostly taking the Inspired Blade for the free weapon focus. That allows a non-human to take Fencing Grace at level 1, a huge benefit for a dex build.

I suppose what I could do instead...

Str (10) Dex (18) Con (14) Int (10) Wis (10) Cha (14)

Simple build. No longer any carrying problems. If throwing something like a dagger, no str penalties. Lose out on 2 skills per level, and the +2 for intelligence skills (which admittedly is only knowledge-local and knowledge-nobility). Also gives +1 will saves and +1 perception...

I'll certainly be rethinking the drow traits as well...


I like crane style for justifying an empty hand. Also counts as a hand free with a buckler.


Just for fun, you might consider throwing in a couple levels of Magus to throw in some spell action. I think it would be neat.

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