I will say that I don't care for how the player companion line has turned into a rules dumping ground.
They used to be cool, man.
You mean things like Charm Person and Acid Splash? I mean, sure, some of them do (like Acid Splash did, and it just got one)Most of the spells that actually need FAQ/Errata are lower level.
Besides that point, there are other, more appropriate fixes to apply. Such as by removing all 7th-9th level spells, and keeping those slots only for Metamagic spells, which considerably lowers a caster's power level, but doesn't absolutely invalidate their core mechanics.
Acid Splash got errata'd? to what?
It's now called Acid Sprinkle.
Acid Splash got errata'd? to what?You mean things like Charm Person and Acid Splash? I mean, sure, some of them do (like Acid Splash did, and it just got one)Most of the spells that actually need FAQ/Errata are lower level.
Besides that point, there are other, more appropriate fixes to apply. Such as by removing all 7th-9th level spells, and keeping those slots only for Metamagic spells, which considerably lowers a caster's power level, but doesn't absolutely invalidate their core mechanics.
It was more of a FAQ, where Acid Splash was affected.
It's lengthy, but you can see the FAQ in its entirety here.
You mean things like Charm Person and Acid Splash?Most of the spells that actually need FAQ/Errata are lower level.
Besides that point, there are other, more appropriate fixes to apply. Such as by removing all 7th-9th level spells, and keeping those slots only for Metamagic spells, which considerably lowers a caster's power level, but doesn't absolutely invalidate their core mechanics.
No.
I mean things like Blood Money and Planar Binding.
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If you are spending $40 to $60 to get just one feat then, well, I don't feel that sorry for you.
Bah!
There are AT MOST ten things in any given book that are of immediate use to me. Other things might become useful later on as I make new characters and realize new synergistic combinations, but for the most part, ten to start is pretty fair I think.
More often then not, the errata and FAQs that have been released over the last year or two usually nerfs approximately six of those things.
So with a few exceptions, the books have becomes less than half of what they were.
Your mileage may vary. This is mine.
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Other than Ultimate Equipment what books have been gutted?I am assuming that gutted means "made a lot less useful".
A lot of content from the ACG was nerfed into complete oblivion. Nerfed to point where certain feats literally do nothing.
Look at Arcane Deed. Instead of addressing the specific issue of precision damage being overpowered on a magus, they gutted the entire feat.
If you are spending $40 to $60 to get just one feat then, well, I don't feel that sorry for you.
Bah!
There are AT MOST ten things in any given book that are of immediate use to me. Other things might become useful later on as I make new characters and realize new synergistic combinations, but for the most part, ten to start is pretty fair I think.
Hear, hear!
About 80% of spells, weapons, magic items and traits are pretty much unusable. Feats are worse, some of them actually do nothing. Classes are better, as I think all or most of them have something nice. I'd say about half of the archetypes are playable. YMMV, of course, but for some of us most of the mechanical content in books is never going to be played. And if the ones that are played are nerfed...
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It's now called Acid Sprinkle.
For some reason, this makes me think of Teal'c's joke in Stargate SG-1.
A Serpent guard, a Horus guard and a Setesh guard meet on a neutral planet. It is a tense moment. The Serpent guard's eyes glow. The Horus guard's beak glistens. The Setesh guard's nose...drips.
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Paizo fosters that cynical view when they errata things as harshly and repeatedly like this. There is a bloody trail of books that they've released and later gutted. Often, it seems conveniently timed to entice people to buy newer books promising awesome options.
They're a business and they need to make money, but there is a dark pattern emerging, and some people have been talking about that pattern for a while and yet Paizo doesn't seem bothered to change that pattern.
Other than Ultimate Equipment what books have been gutted?
I am assuming that gutted means "made a lot less useful".
Books that have been made a LOT less useful for me due to recent FAQratta:
- Advanced Class Guide
- Advanced Race Guide
- Core Rulebook
- Occult Adventures
- Ultimate Combat
- Ultimate Equipment
Other books were hit fairly hard as well, but none so much as these.
Also, here is a list of my characters that have been adversely effected by the recent FAQrattas (to say nothing of the characters my friends have made!):
- Alleunti Dilesi, the Deceiver
- Araonna Chorster
- Batta Wrang
- Bumiahma Britoris Orpheus
- Claon Tonkinelm
- Cracked Man, The
- Crimm Corran
- Cúran
- Dag
- Daren Mott
- Dark Knight, The
- Durin Wrang
- Enyo Quache
- Father Grigori
- Floating Mountain
- Galanost Laetalal
- Guinn Black
- Haylannar Whart
- Heathcliff, The Blood Knight
- Hesbra Dehlonna
- Jackal Maulsons
- Jevicca Dehlonna
- Kang Makhai
- Kujo, the Butcher
- Lailah Hael
- Lily Oleander
- Meredith Nerissa
- Nives Burer
- Nudel the Devourer
- Ord Zheng
- Rafaj
- Raijin Perun
- Sanat Norstag
- Sandalphan
- She'er Falen
- Sinsa Tosscobble
- Tolu Wrang
- Vallairs
- Yiankin Lee
Nearly half of these characters have been nerfed more than once. Several have been nerfed two, three, or more times!
I shudder to think of how many other characters have been adversely affected at other tables.
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I just think it's actually depressing because of how well I think the setting is, the flavour of all the inner sea. 60 bucks for a feat (or for some a trait even) and it's useless?
In don't want this turning into an argument about the Stormwind Fallacy, just man that irks me people think a book is useless (really? Useless?) Because of.. a "bait and switch"?Like I said. Depressing that's how these books are viewed by some.
As this seems primarily directed at my response, I'll address it (though I'm not sure how Stormwind plays into having an errata nerf affect the value of one's book purchases).
I purchased the book primarily because of the post Jason made. The cover price was $12.99 and I bought it in one of the FLGS in the area because I believe in supporting local gaming stores who provide us a venue to play PFS (purchasing .pdfs isn't really my thing for a variety of reasons, but mostly I like books and I'm very picky about the kinds of books I'll purchase). The book was focused as a companion book to the "Adventure Path" ACG - which was HUGELY errata'd in it's 2nd printing (9 PAGES of errata). As I mentioned, I like hardcopy books. Having to print out an additional 9 pages of errata to reference the overly-errata'd ACG doesn't exactly inspire me to build a lot of ACG classes for PFS because, remember, you have to have all of your source material for PFS play. So, yes, it is now "pointless" (not useless) for me to own the book because the one thing I used the source material for (a dex-magus) is no longer viable for PFS, which is the purpose for which I bought the book.
It's a "bait-and-switch" to me because Paizo staff advertised something before releasing it, allowed it to sell-through for over a year, and then forced another version of it via reprint in a hardback. The term does not apply to all errata released, but I think it fits for Fencing Grace.
Does this damage my faith in Paizo? Absolutely.
Do I still purchase their product? Sometimes, sure. I still think that Paizo is the best game company out there making a product I mostly enjoy. I just think that their errata policies and how that affects their organize play / marketing campaign has become detrimental to both their business model and the faith that a lot of those of us who play their game have held for some time. I also recognize I'm probably not their target player type - I don't believe I should have to purchase things two or three times to use in PFS play (hardcover, .pdf, HeroLab) and I resist the implications that I should have to.
Do I think that Paizo (or Paizo employees) make the changes maliciously? Not at all, I'm pretty sure Jason B. would take far greater joy in killing my PCs with a demilich than cause them to cease to exist via errata. He felt that the change was needed, so he implemented it. I feel that his choice damaged the perception of both Paizo and himself. Both are valid choices and not mutually exclusive. I can respect him for that decision, even though I vehemently disagree with it.
Ultimately, a lot of it boils down to the fact that people purchase Paizo products (or any gaming products) for a variety of reasons. I do so exclusivelly for PFS. Some folks are collectors. Others want them for home-game stuff or to generate ideas. Some may do so just for the artwork. They are all valid reasons to get things, but erratas hit home harder for some of these areas than they do for others.
Acid Splash got errata'd? to what?You mean things like Charm Person and Acid Splash? I mean, sure, some of them do (like Acid Splash did, and it just got one)Most of the spells that actually need FAQ/Errata are lower level.
Besides that point, there are other, more appropriate fixes to apply. Such as by removing all 7th-9th level spells, and keeping those slots only for Metamagic spells, which considerably lowers a caster's power level, but doesn't absolutely invalidate their core mechanics.It was more of a FAQ, where Acid Splash was affected.
It's lengthy, but you can see the FAQ in its entirety here.
I'm still not getting this Acid Splash thing. A ray is a specific weapon type, but a specific spell has never been its own weapon type, so this is just a clarification. It is not a rule change, and acid splash is a cantrip.
Other than Ultimate Equipment what books have been gutted?I am assuming that gutted means "made a lot less useful".
A lot of content from the ACG was nerfed into complete oblivion. Nerfed to point where certain feats literally do nothing.
Look at Arcane Deed. Instead of addressing the specific issue of precision damage being overpowered on a magus, they gutted the entire feat.
I didnt notice this one, but it is pretty bad.
However many of the things in the ACG were so badly written nobody really knew what they did and/or they never should have been created.
Admittedly, I am not as familiar with that book as I am the others so outside of the top options I would not have noticed certain errata.
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Does anyone else actually dread it when paizo rolls out new FAQs/Errata and just wish they could get the unedited content more easily so they could not use them(particularly on online indexes like d20pfsrd)?
Nope. I like seeing the developers' intent and/or thoughts on how to balance different options. More FAQs/Errata please.
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To say nothing of all the monsters whose sole purpose was to hide or deceive no longer being able to do so because their spell-like abilities no light them up!
Though there are several dozen monsters (if not more!) that have been hit hard by the spellcasting identification pseudo-errata, one such example is the doppelganger, who can no longer detect thoughts without alerting everyone in the room that he's up to no good!
There are even a few published modules that no longer function as written because of this!
Well, he can, it's just harder. You activate it in a private space/room, then concentrate on it for up to 18 minutes before you have to do it again. It's totally workable for a doppleganger who is running a store (use your stock room in the back) or hanging out in an inn (go to your room to activate, then slowly walk back to the common room).
Does anyone else actually dread it when paizo rolls out new FAQs/Errata and just wish they could get the unedited content more easily so they could not use them(particularly on online indexes like d20pfsrd)?Nope. I like seeing the developers' intent and/or thoughts on how to balance different options. More FAQs/Errata please.
One of these things is not like the other.
We've rarely ever seen anything about the intent and/or thoughts on how to balance options - I agree that more of that would be good to know what the thought process is behind intent &/ or changes.This has (almost?) never been something they've shown with erratas, however (and very rarely with FAQs).
To say nothing of all the monsters whose sole purpose was to hide or deceive no longer being able to do so because their spell-like abilities no light them up!
Though there are several dozen monsters (if not more!) that have been hit hard by the spellcasting identification pseudo-errata, one such example is the doppelganger, who can no longer detect thoughts without alerting everyone in the room that he's up to no good!
There are even a few published modules that no longer function as written because of this!
I agree. I think it was done to stop players from using SLA's against the GM's monsters without it being noticed, but I don't think it was that big of an issue. Maybe adding a +10 to the DC would work, or just having a monster ability that makes it so that certain monsters get to use certain SLA's without ruining their schtick.
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It's worth noting though Magic unlike both hearthstone and Pathfinder/3.5 doesn't ever patch individual abilities they errata and FAQ for clarification, they ban for organized tournament play but they never try to recall the card and change the effects. The only time cards get a change is as a byproduct of larger game system changes like the addition of the stack, the change from damage going on the stack to it not doing so etc.It bears mentioning that Magic did once have some power level errata - for example, the Vintage staple Time Vault once had Oracle text (involving adding and removing time counters) that prevented the kind of Voltaic Key shenanigans it's capable of today. ^_^That's fair but currently it isn't being made use of in that way because of some of the same issues I have with Paizo namely the disparity between printed text and online text and because it reduces the confidence of the consumer and thus the value of your product. The only big exception I can think of off the top of my head is the Wish spells which technically got a nerf via FAQ to prevent people from bringing their entire collections to tournaments.
Kinda besides the point except that I do feel that paizo is damaging the perceived value of their product by making sweeping nerfs to content that has been out for a long time and is being used by their players. I mean it essentially comes out and tells you that you can't trust them to not remove things you like from your books/games. And while you can always hammer it back in via DM fiat if you're the DM of a home game you can't if you're a player.
No matter if they errata/faq or not someone will complain. I think they are useful as long as they are done well, and they don't throw the baby out with the bath water like they did with the item from Ultimate Magic that negated one crit per day. I would have kept the AC bonus as a luck bonus, and maybe changed the crit to a 50% or 25% chance, or any other number of things.
Which reminds me that I need to go through that book since I still have the pre-errata version, and officially decide what I will and will not keep. That errata was terrible.
Well, as someone used to running and playing home games, FAQs and erratas are just new ways to look at something, pretty much an opinion of the devs.
Heh i play usually by what is in the books actually, very, very rarely will a FAQ or errata even matter or change anything.
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We've rarely ever seen anything about the intent and/or thoughts on how to balance options - I agree that more of that would be good to know what the thought process is behind intent &/ or changes.
This has (almost?) never been something they've shown with erratas, however (and very rarely with FAQs).
Inference is a thing.
I've read through that new ranged FAQ once, and I'm a long ways off from understanding it.
The ability to add arcane strike to acid splash made it go from almost completely useless to almost useful.
I'm still not getting this Acid Splash thing. A ray is a specific weapon type, but a specific spell has never been its own weapon type, so this is just a clarification. It is not a rule change, and acid splash is a cantrip.
But unlimited castings!