Extra dice on a nonlethal weapon

[waynemarkstubbs]

If I have a weapon that normally deals nonlethal damage, and it gains a quality that grants it extra dice of damage, is that extra damage also nonlethal? Does a flaming whip deal nonlethal fire damage?

More specifically, if I use a whip against someone wearing armour, it normally can't hurt them. What if I use a flaming whip, or a bane whip? Does it hurt them at all?

Thanks.

[Scythia]

The only way all damage a weapon does is non-lethal is if it has the Merciful enchantment, which specifies that all damage the weapon does becomes non-lethal. Otherwise the added damage is regular damage. If you add Flaming to a weapon, you add 1d6 fire damage regardless of the base weapon damage.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

A sap using sneak attack is all nonlethal damage.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

A sap using sneak attack is all nonlethal damage.

But does a flaming sap using sneak attack deal all nonlethal damage?

[Ascalaphus]

I would say that if the added damage is of the same kind as the original weapon, and the original weapon is nonlethal, then the added damage is also nonlethal.

If you put Bane on a sap, the extra damage will also be nonlethal.

However, if your extra damage is of a different type (Flaming) you'd need a special ability to render it nonlethal.

[Artifix]

Ascalaphus wrote:

I would say that if the added damage is of the same kind as the original weapon, and the original weapon is nonlethal, then the added damage is also nonlethal.

If you put Bane on a sap, the extra damage will also be nonlethal.

However, if your extra damage is of a different type (Flaming) you'd need a special ability to render it nonlethal.

Does that mean that a Whip with Sacred Damage from the Warpriest's Sacred Weapon ability does lethal or nonlethal?

[Ascalaphus]

I don't see it changing the damage type, just the die size. A sacred weapon doesn't change a slashing weapon into a bludgeoning one, so why should it turn nonlethal into lethal?

[CampinCarl9127]

I mostly agree with Ascalaphus. Extra type-less damage would be nonlethal, elemental damage would be lethal unless it also had the merciful quality. I would also rule that a vicious weapon would be lethal because of the nature of the enchantment. A merciful vicious weapon...could be pretty cool on a barbarian.

[Imbicatus]

Merciful and vicious should not be allowed on the same weapon from a balance or common sense perspective. Balance, it removes the downside to a vicious weapon, and common sense, the magic is opposed. One wants to kill the enemy by sapping your life force, the other is designed to spare it's life.

[Rysky]

Well it doesn't remove the downside, it just makes it nonlethal.

[Gisher]

As a side note, if you want to deal more nonlethal damage with a whip it's hard to beat the Sapping special ability.

[Imbicatus]

Rysky wrote:

Well it doesn't remove the downside, it just makes it nonlethal.

But it's very easy to become immune to the effects of non-lethal damage, which does remove the downside. Several archetypes give dr/- against non-lethal, and a feat will make it so you never pass out from it.