I keep seeing people interpreting this differently.
Assume a PC is say a level 1-3 ranger, paladin, or bloodrager; he does not yet cast any spells.
Assume he did not take an archtype that gives up spellcasting.
Does he or does he not have a spell list for things like scrolls and wands without needing UMD?
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The Core Rulebook addresses that specific case, highlighted in italics in the quote below.
Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Mathmuse's answer is correct for wands. The wording for scrolls is this:
To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.
The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his class.)
The user must have the spell on her class list.
The user must have the requisite ability score.
If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell's caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell's caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll's caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.
So UMD isn't necessary for either scrolls or wands, as long as you're the correct class, but if you're not high enough level to cast the spell on the scroll, you have to roll a caster level check.
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I keep seeing people interpreting this differently.
Assume a PC is say a level 1-3 ranger, paladin, or bloodrager; he does not yet cast any spells.
Assume he did not take an archtype that gives up spellcasting.Does he or does he not have a spell list for things like scrolls and wands without needing UMD?
The Spells on Scroll or Wand simply has to be a spell that is usable to that Class...
Look at the Spell it tells you what class can cast it at what level.
I keep seeing people interpreting this differently.
Assume a PC is say a level 1-3 ranger, paladin, or bloodrager; he does not yet cast any spells.
Assume he did not take an archtype that gives up spellcasting.Does he or does he not have a spell list for things like scrolls and wands without needing UMD?
The Spells on Scroll or Wand simply has to be a spell that is usable to that Class...
Look at the Spell it tells you what class can cast it at what level.
That's not accurate for scrolls. The poster above you quoted the correct rules.
A 3rd level paladin does not yet have a caster level.
Which ends up in a weird area, because I think they can't even make a caster level check, and would need UMD to activate a scroll. Although I could also see just having a caster level of 0 and needing to roll a d20+0 vs scroll's caster level+1.
It is true for Wands that the spell just has to be usable by the class. If a 1st level Ranger got a wand with Instant Enemy (3rd level Ranger spell) on it, he can use the wand to cast the spell, even though he cannot actually select this 3rd level Ranger spell from his list until he reaches 10th level (Wisdom 16+ bonus spell) or 11th level (Wisdom 10-15). And the Wisdom of the Ranger does not matter for the Wand usage, just for casting the spell from the Ranger list. I am just listing the Wisdom so you can see the added benefit of wand usage.
Ok, that's what I thought. People keep telling me I cand use the wands or scrolls until I get to 4th level. I had forgotten about the caster level check for scrolls though. Thanks for the reminder.
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I keep seeing people interpreting this differently.
Assume a PC is say a level 1-3 ranger, paladin, or bloodrager; he does not yet cast any spells.
Assume he did not take an archtype that gives up spellcasting.Does he or does he not have a spell list for things like scrolls and wands without needing UMD?
The Spells on Scroll or Wand simply has to be a spell that is usable to that Class...
Look at the Spell it tells you what class can cast it at what level.
That's not accurate for scrolls. The poster above you quoted the correct rules.
A 3rd level paladin does not yet have a caster level.
Which ends up in a weird area, because I think they can't even make a caster level check, and would need UMD to activate a scroll. Although I could also see just having a caster level of 0 and needing to roll a d20+0 vs scroll's caster level+1.
So your saying I am wrong because I said they can cast a spell if it is listed as a Spell usable by their Class ( without mentioning the above rule) or because I said they could without use magical device?
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Caster Level +1 is not a difficult check
A First Level Paladin could use a scroll of cure light wounds since it is on Paladins spell list..by making spell check
A First level Paladin could not use a scroll of Magic Missile without UMD because it is not on their Spell list by simply using a spell check
Calth has it. A 3rd level paladin doesn't have a caster level, not even of 0. So I don't think they can make a caster level check to use a scroll of a paladin spell, they need UMD (I think). But it is not completely clear.
Just to confirm what Claxon and others have said:
Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level.
Unlike Claxon, I think it is completely clear. Without a caster level I can't see how you can make a caster level check. I would be impressed to see a reasonable argument allowing you to do so.
A paladin needs UMD to use scrolls until they hit 4th level.
Just want to note that Bloodrager gets full caster level. It does not have the text about Caster Level -3 that Ranger and Paladin have.
It is not clearly defined if they have a caster level before 4th level, but at 4th level they are caster level 4.
As others have said, the three classes can use wands assuming their archetype didn't give up spell casting. Paladins and Rangers can not use scrolls without UMD. Expect table variation on Bloodrager.