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During the playtest for the Vigilante class, I recall a developer stating that Up Close and Personal would count toward activating the Stalker Talents that rely on d8 Hidden Strike. The current wording doesn't explicitly allow it, and it hasn't made it to the FAQ so...
Does a successful acrobatics check using Up Close and Personal count as qualifying for the stalker talents marked with an asterisk (*)?
Vigilante Specialization wrote: A stalker vigilante can apply only one talent marked with an asterisk (*) to a given hidden strike, and only when that hidden strike is dealt against a foe that is unaware of the stalker vigilante's presence (or who considers him an ally), unless otherwise noted. Up Close and Personal wrote: When the vigilante attempts an Acrobatics check to move through an opponent's space during a move action, he can attempt a single melee attack against that opponent as a swift action. If the Acrobatics check succeeds, this attack applies the vigilante's hidden strike damage as if the foe were unaware of the vigilante. Otherwise, the vigilante applies the hidden strike damage he would deal if the target were denied its Dexterity bonus to AC. Only a stalker vigilante of at least 4th level can select this talent. "Applies the vigilante's hidden strike damage as if" doesn't necessarily mean that it's a "hidden strike dealt against a foe that is unaware of the vigilante's presence (or considers him an ally)." You deal damage to them as if they had the conditions, but it doesn't say you can use other abilities that require the conditions.
With a FAQ/errata, it would become explicitly "otherwise noted."
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ShieldLawrence wrote: During the playtest for the Vigilante class, I recall a developer stating that Up Close and Personal would count toward activating the Stalker Talents that rely on d8 Hidden Strike. The current wording doesn't explicitly allow it, and it hasn't made it to the FAQ so...
Does a successful acrobatics check using Up Close and Personal count as qualifying for the stalker talents marked with an asterisk (*)?
Just bringing this thread up again since the query by ShieldLawrence (FAQ re vigilante hidden strike riders being potentially applicable to the Up Close and Personal talent, whether it is wishful thinking or not) is still valid and formal clarification would be welcome by quite a few.
Also calling those interested to mark ShieldLawrence's original post as faq
So this ability gives the Vigilante a good attack for the price of a move and a swift action? Pretty neat. I guess the downside is getting an AoO when you fail the Acrobatics check, but then, it's pretty easy to get bonuses on Acrobatics...
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I wish this had more support, right now there's no way to tell at all which is likely the correct answer. That up close and personal is supposed to let talents with an * work or not. (really kinda wish they didn't have such a limit and just applied to all "sneak attacks" to make this simple)
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FAQ for that will be helpful for any discussion.
Vigilante has some strange written abilities, that create many questions. They need to be answered.
When I answer about some unusual tricks that my Character do, I want to be sure that I can use FAQ as arguments and as Rule. After all it could grow into a huge problem when playing as I understand or, from other side I can lose a lot of potential when play as we have. No one want that.
Oficially FAQ that please.
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Yes, it would be great to have a clarification in regard to this matter
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Catharsis wrote: So this ability gives the Vigilante a good attack for the price of a move and a swift action? Pretty neat. I guess the downside is getting an AoO when you fail the Acrobatics check, but then, it's pretty easy to get bonuses on Acrobatics... Indeed. You've got variety of ways to boost your Acrobatics, eg Skill Focus and Acrobatics feats.
NB Extra ranks in Acrobatics will also improve your AC if fighting defensively
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ShieldLawrence is right, and well done for Timo Fey for bringing the attention back to the issue again. I’ve seen it being discussed at Reddit too.
I ain’t got the UCaP for my vigilante yet, but it is essential to know if I should count on it my build. The GM in our campaign promised to allow Leave an Opening to be triggered by a successful Acrobatics check under UCaP, noting LaO would have little sense otherwise. It’s open for interpretations though
ShieldLawrence wrote: During the playtest for the Vigilante class, I recall a developer stating that Up Close and Personal would count toward activating the Stalker Talents that rely on d8 Hidden Strike. The current wording doesn't explicitly allow it, and it hasn't made it to the FAQ so...
Does a successful acrobatics check using Up Close and Personal count as qualifying for the stalker talents marked with an asterisk (*)?
Vigilante Specialization wrote: A stalker vigilante can apply only one talent marked with an asterisk (*) to a given hidden strike, and only when that hidden strike is dealt against a foe that is unaware of the stalker vigilante's presence (or who considers him an ally), unless otherwise noted. Up Close and Personal wrote: When the vigilante attempts an Acrobatics check to move through an opponent's space during a move action, he can attempt a single melee attack against that opponent as a swift action. If the Acrobatics check succeeds, this attack applies the vigilante's hidden strike damage as if the foe were unaware of the vigilante. Otherwise, the vigilante applies the hidden strike damage he would deal if the target were denied its Dexterity bonus to AC. Only a stalker vigilante of at least 4th level can select this talent. "Applies the vigilante's hidden strike damage as if" doesn't necessarily mean that it's a "hidden strike dealt against a foe that is unaware of the vigilante's presence (or considers him an ally)." You deal damage to them as if they had the conditions, but it doesn't say you can use other abilities that require the conditions.
With a FAQ/errata, it would become explicitly "otherwise noted."
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That's how my group runs it. I've got a Vigilante who uses it and it's pretty okay. You can get two attacks if you start your turn right next to someone, which is pretty much what you'd be getting if you were a regular TWF rogue.
Kristal Moonhand wrote: That's how my group runs it. I've got a Vigilante who uses it and it's pretty okay. You can get two attacks if you start your turn right next to someone, which is pretty much what you'd be getting if you were a regular TWF rogue. That's a valid argument, thank you. Could you join us in tagging it as a FAQ candidate please?
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