Monk Archetypes and Armor

[TrustNo1]

If a monk loses Flurry of Blows for wearing armor, then are monk archetype abilities that replace FoB also lost while wearing armor?

[Diminuendo]

only if explicitally stated by the archetype

[Scott Wilhelm]

I don't think so. Wearing Armor means you lose Flurry of Blows, not the ability blend Style Feats. It doesn't say that when you wear armor, you lose the ability to blend Style Feats, does it?

You lose other things, too. You lose your Wisdom Mod to AC. You lose your Monk AC Bonus, and you lose the Monk Fast Movement Ability.

[TrustNo1]

I'm thinking about this from a balance standpoint. You are penalized several class abilities for wearing armor. That being said, the FoB class ability is switched out for another with the archetype. If you switch the name of one class ability to another, shouldn't it fall under the same restrictions?

[graystone]

TrustNo1 wrote:

I'm thinking about this from a balance standpoint. You are penalized several class abilities for wearing armor. That being said, the FoB class ability is switched out for another with the archetype. If you switch the name of one class ability to another, shouldn't it fall under the same restrictions?

No. The benefits AND penalties switched. That ability also doesn't have the 'counts as FoB' wording so if some other ability are looking for it, like a feat, you wouldn't be able to use it.

[James Risner]

Look at Maneuver Master. It got changed to say it works more like FoB. I'd use anything with Flurry in its name as FoB including baggage. If the new ability doesn't have Flurry or say it uses the baggage of FoB, then I'd consider it a different ability and not apply the penalties.

[Kazaan]

If you are trading out FoB (or any other armor-restricted class ability), the ability you gain is not considered to be the original ability unless it functions in the same way. For instance, a Fighter might trade Weapon Training for Polearm Training. Since Polearm Training functions exactly the same as Weapon Training, save for being limited to a single weapon group, it is treated as Weapon Training. But just because you're trading out FoB doesn't mean the replacement automatically qualifies as FoB. By the same logic, if a Ranger archetype traded out Combat Style feats (which don't work if you wear Heavy armor), that doesn't necessarily mean that the new class abilities he gains don't work in Heavy armor (unless they specifically say so).