|
The wording on the FAQ says you need the "Poison Use class feature" to buy poisons. Vishkanya get "Poison Use" as a racial ability with the same name and wording as the class feature.
Can Vishkanya buy poisons in PFS?
Yes, but it is unclear whether they have a list of always available poisons or not.
Any character with the Poison Use class ability can purchase and use poisons. For now, they are the only classes that have a list of "always available poisons" (those noted below)—no other class may purchase poisons unless they appear on a Chronicle sheet or in another legal source. Alchemists, ninja, and poisoner rogues may only purchase the following poisons: black adder venom, bloodroot, giant wasp poison, greenblood oil, large scorpion venom, malyass root paste, Medium spider venom, nitharit, shadow essence, small centipede poison, terinav root.
|
None of the "always available" poisons are worth buying.. That's the conclusion I came up with when I was researching the same thing for mine. I'd just take the racial feat for upgrading your poison and be happy with that. Any poisons worth buying you'll have to find on a chronicle sheet and for those you can buy simply because they're on the sheet.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
None of the "always available" poisons are worth buying.. That's the conclusion I came up with when I was researching the same thing for mine. I'd just take the racial feat for upgrading your poison and be happy with that. Any poisons worth buying you'll have to find on a chronicle sheet and for those you can buy simply because they're on the sheet.
That's the decision I made with mine, and even having just 5 fame opens up a few poisons.
Red tears might be a decent low level poison, and rainbow jellyfish toxin is pricey, but is basically a save or die if the creature fails one or both saves.
Developer
|
Since it seems impossible to trade away my vishanka boon, I may have to look at vishanka character options.
The one thing that comes to mind is that this could make the bard spell "beguiling gift" have a bunch more options.
Hmm
I'm working on a Vishkanya Hoaxer right now. Sleeping Poison + Slumber Hex means your going to be putting quite a few people to sleep. Being able to pre-poison your items helps. There is a 5,000 GP magic item that lets you harvest poison too.
There's quite a few fun items you can give away with Beguiling Gift: Drugs, Flawed Ioun Stones, Sendskin potions...
I wish Mindborer Ioun Stones were legal to purchase in PFS...there's a weird debate on that in one of my online groups, but the 2011 post from James Jacobs my IRL Venture Captain found settled it: Players cannot buy cursed items (save for the limited list avaiable to Hoaxers).
That being said, there is a "deadly courtesan" archetype coming out (next month?), so we might want to hold off and wait.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That's the minimum fame where you can buy items that aren't always available or on your chronicle sheet.
As Sarvei points out, the wording on the AR is poor as to who can buy poisons at all. Personally I think saying Vishkanya can't because for them it's a racial trait and not a class ability is probably a narrower reading than should be taken. But there is precedent with regards to the poison use rogue talent. Nonetheless there are GMs who won't allow it.
|
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
you can never buy poisons unless you have the poison use class feature or it appears on a chronicle. fame has no regard.
I believe they should be able to buy myself, im ok if they risk contact on adding like a non specialized class but i think they would know where to buy poisons
|
|
you can never buy poisons unless you have the poison use class feature or it appears on a chronicle. fame has no regard.
I believe they should be able to buy myself, im ok if they risk contact on adding like a non specialized class but i think they would know where to buy poisons
Fame does matter. Even if you have the poison use class feature, unless the poison appears on the always available list (which is limited to certain classes currently) or you have it on a chronicle, you need sufficient fame to purchase it.
So an 2nd level alchemist can buy Red Tears as long as they have at least 5 fame, even if they never found red tears on a chronicle.
|
you can never buy poisons unless you have the poison use class feature or it appears on a chronicle. fame has no regard.
I believe they should be able to buy myself, im ok if they risk contact on adding like a non specialized class but i think they would know where to buy poisons
Fame does matter. Even if you have the poison use class feature, unless the poison appears on the always available list (which is limited to certain classes currently) or you have it on a chronicle, you need sufficient fame to purchase it.
So an 2nd level alchemist can buy Red Tears as long as they have at least 5 fame, even if they never found red tears on a chronicle.
I would read the FAQ as stating for those that can buy poisons that they are always available and Fame does not matter.
Any character with the Poison Use class ability can purchase and use poisons. For now, they are the only classes that have a list of “always available poisons” (those noted below)—no other class may purchase poisons unless they appear on a chronicle sheet.
|
|
The list of always available poisons is smaller than the list of PFS legal poisons.
"(those noted below)" refers to the list of poisons, not the classes.
Black adder venom, bloodroot, giant wasp poison, greenblood oil, large scorpion venom, malyass root paste, Medium spider venom, nitharit, shadow essence, small centipede poison, and terinav root are the only always available poisons, and only to those with poison use.
|
|
That is just from the Core book, all others are added onto that list from additional resources (As long as you have a class that can buy them).
Any Non-magical item added in additional resources is considered Always Available, with the extra restriction on poisons limited to certain class ability.
Edit: There are few other exceptions, but they are called out as specifically needing fame.
Edit: Like I said above with the extra restrictions on Poison and the few exceptions called out, here is what the guide states.
All mundane (completely nonmagical) weapons, armor, equipment, and alchemical gear found in any other source that is legal for play are considered always available.
|
as steven stated is how i understood it, they are alchemical gear and so are always available because they are not magic
That may be right. It's doubtful to be an issue anyway. If someone really wants to drop 1,000gold on Cockatrice Spit before they have enough fame, it's not going to break anything (except possibly their WBL).
|
|
If that were the case, then the list in the AR serves no purpose. I would consider that list to be a specific restriction on the availability of poisons and thus overriding the general availability of nonmagical alchemical items.
the list in the AR calls out which ones are legal for pfs, not wether they are always available for poison use class's
|
|
That clearly isn't the case. There are poisons that are legal for PFS that are not in the always available poisons list under the entry for Ultimate Equipment.
Any character with the Poison Use class ability can purchase and use poisons. For now, they are the only classes that have a list of "always available poisons" (those noted below)—no other class may purchase poisons unless they appear on a Chronicle sheet or in another legal source. Alchemists, ninja, and poisoner rogues may only purchase the following poisons: black adder venom, bloodroot, giant wasp poison, greenblood oil, large scorpion venom, malyass root paste, Medium spider venom, nitharit, shadow essence, small centipede poison, terinav root.
Dirty Tactics Toolbox mentions the poisons being legal for play but does not add them to the always legal poisons list for any class.
Therefore they are legal for purchase but not always available.
|
Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
|
Ok, time to put my 2 cp in on this one.
After some research, I am finding the following:
Vishkanya are currently unable to purchase poisons as they have Poison Use as a racial ability which makes them unable to poison themselves with their own poison but still be poisoned by others in the wild. They do not have the Poison Use class ability as stated in both the Ultimate Equipment and FAQ entries which allows the purchase of a certain list of poisons. They can, however, purchase poisons that appear on a chronicle sheet (The way I understand this point is that they are unable to purchase poisons not on a chronicle sheet or based on fame).
Unless I missed something, Poisons do not have a classification as either alchemical items or alchemical gear but are listed by themselves (Core Rulebook pg 557 and Ultimate Equipment pg 110). If there is an alchemical classification of poisons that I did not see, please let me know. Otherwise, this lack of a classification makes poisons not on the Always Available List.
I do understand that they can be crafted with the Craft (Alchemy) skill provided they meet the class archetype and ability requirements as stated in the Pathfinder Society FAQ listing on How Do Poisons Work In Pathfinder Society Organized Play. This fact does not give them a classification of either being an alchemical item or alchemical gear (Core Rulebook pg 557 and Ultimate Equipment pg 110).
The questions that come up unanswered are:
Can a Vishkanya purchase poisons due to having the Poison Use racial ability? Based on how both the FAQ and Ultimate Equipment entries are written, I would say they are unable to purchase poisons without them being on a chronicle sheet. The fact that both the FAQ and Ultimate Equipment entries on poisons do not state that they can be purchased if a character has the required fame (This is a conflict with Additional Resources as it does state from another legal source as an option).
Are poisons their own classification or do they fall under the classification of an Alchemical Item or Alchemical Gear? The reason for this question as the Always Available list in Chapter 5 of the Guide to the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild does list Alchemical Gear as being on the Always Available list. In my opinion, poisons do have their own category but a clarification would not hurt.
The answer to the second question will be sent up to the Guide Revisions Task Force for updating in the appropriate section of the next version of the Guide. The first question will probably need a clarification in the next Additional Resources.
|
Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
|
If that were the case, then the list in the AR serves no purpose. I would consider that list to be a specific restriction on the availability of poisons and thus overriding the general availability of nonmagical alchemical items.the list in the AR calls out which ones are legal for pfs, not wether they are always available for poison use class's
The list in both the Additional Resources entry for Ultimate Equipment and the FAQ actually amends the always available list to add the listed poisons for the classes and archetypes allowed to purchase poisons.
|
Any character with the Poison Use class ability can purchase and use poisons. For now, they are the only classes that have a list of “always available poisons” (those noted below)—no other class may purchase poisons unless they appear on a chronicle sheet.
The bolded section prevents all characters from buying poisons available in the Additional Resources unless they have Poison Use.
|
Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
|
Any character with the Poison Use class ability can purchase and use poisons. For now, they are the only classes that have a list of “always available poisons” (those noted below)—no other class may purchase poisons unless they appear on a chronicle sheet.The bolded section prevents all characters from buying poisons available in the Additional Resources unless they have Poison Use.
If you look at the entry in Ultimate Equipment it adds from another legal source.
Any character with the Poison Use class ability can purchase and use poisons. For now, they are the only classes that have a list of "always available poisons" (those noted below)—no other class may purchase poisons unless they appear on a Chronicle sheet or in another legal source. Alchemists, ninja, and poisoner rogues may only purchase the following poisons: black adder venom, bloodroot, giant wasp poison, greenblood oil, large scorpion venom, malyass root paste, Medium spider venom, nitharit, shadow essence, small centipede poison, terinav root.
|
|
Any character with the Poison Use class ability can purchase and use poisons. For now, they are the only classes that have a list of “always available poisons” (those noted below)—no other class may purchase poisons unless they appear on a chronicle sheet.The bolded section prevents all characters from buying poisons available in the Additional Resources unless they have Poison Use.If you look at the entry in Ultimate Equipment it adds from another legal source.
Any character with the Poison Use class ability can purchase and use poisons. For now, they are the only classes that have a list of "always available poisons" (those noted below)—no other class may purchase poisons unless they appear on a Chronicle sheet or in another legal source. Alchemists, ninja, and poisoner rogues may only purchase the following poisons: black adder venom, bloodroot, giant wasp poison, greenblood oil, large scorpion venom, malyass root paste, Medium spider venom, nitharit, shadow essence, small centipede poison, terinav root.
I believe the FAQ overrides the Ultimate Equipment entry.
|
Developer
|
I know about deadly courtesan. What's enchanting courtesan???A new "Deadly Courtesan" archetype? Where? There's already an archetype with that name in the Vishkanya section of the Advanced Race Guide.My bad. Its the "enchanting courtesan" in "Inner Sea Intrigue".
Its me posting without enough sleep and mixing up the words "enchanting" and "deadly".
--
Does a Vishkanya's applied poison "stick" between sessions? It might seem a little "unfair" to some GMs to have an entire quiver full of pre-poisoned arrows.
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
It's a poison. It sticks until a successful hit. It's up to the GM whether to allow you to poison things in the downtime approaching their scenario.
It sticks until there is a hit or the object is touched.. How long can arrows jostle around a quiver before they count as having been touched?
|
|
It's a poison. It sticks until a successful hit. It's up to the GM whether to allow you to poison things in the downtime approaching their scenario.It sticks until there is a hit or the object is touched.. How long can arrows jostle around a quiver before they count as having been touched?
If it matters pretty long. They make broadhead quivers that hold the arrow pretty still no matter what you're doing with it. If you as the DM say that the laws of physics require the arrow to be steadied this week , the player should be able to adapt and do so. Buy 20 extra arrows dump out 19 poison 1 if nothing else.
|
|
If it matters pretty long. They make broadhead quivers that hold the arrow pretty still no matter what you're doing with it. If you as the DM say that the laws of physics require the arrow to be steadied this week , the player should be able to adapt and do so. Buy 20 extra arrows dump out 19 poison 1 if nothing else.It's a poison. It sticks until a successful hit. It's up to the GM whether to allow you to poison things in the downtime approaching their scenario.It sticks until there is a hit or the object is touched.. How long can arrows jostle around a quiver before they count as having been touched?
I don't know if your answer addresses the question or if I misunderstood how you're answering it. The question as I understood was "As a Vishkanya I have a racial poison, am I allowed to pre-poison weapons before adventures using up my daily uses of poisons between adventures? This could cause me to have <an arbitrarily large number> of poisoned arrows."
|
|
I don't know if your answer addresses the question or if I misunderstood how you're answering it. The question as I understood was "As a Vishkanya I have a racial poison, am I allowed to pre-poison weapons before adventures using up my daily uses of poisons between adventures? This could cause me to have <an arbitrarily large number> of poisoned arrows."
Above I'm arguing against the idea that putting a poisoned arrow in a quiver is going to take off the poison.
As to the bigger picture, i think the answer is no. You generally cannot have effects from one scenario to another carry over, or do things in between scenarios that last into the scenario, like build up a pile of goodberries. If you start in absolom and then sail to wherever, then you can build up a stockpile. But you can't do it with the "at the speed of plot" downtime between scenarios.
Its me posting without enough sleep and mixing up the words "enchanting" and "deadly".I know about deadly courtesan. What's enchanting courtesan???A new "Deadly Courtesan" archetype? Where? There's already an archetype with that name in the Vishkanya section of the Advanced Race Guide.My bad. Its the "enchanting courtesan" in "Inner Sea Intrigue".
Other than the fact that the "enchanting courtesan" in Inner Sea Intrigue is a prestige class rather than an archetype, we really don't know much about it at this point.
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
I don't know if your answer addresses the question or if I misunderstood how you're answering it. The question as I understood was "As a Vishkanya I have a racial poison, am I allowed to pre-poison weapons before adventures using up my daily uses of poisons between adventures? This could cause me to have <an arbitrarily large number> of poisoned arrows."
Above I'm arguing against the idea that putting a poisoned arrow in a quiver is going to take off the poison.
As to the bigger picture, i think the answer is no. You generally cannot have effects from one scenario to another carry over, or do things in between scenarios that last into the scenario, like build up a pile of goodberries. If you start in absolom and then sail to wherever, then you can build up a stockpile. But you can't do it with the "at the speed of plot" downtime between scenarios.
What about putting a sword in the scabbard? If it does not take off the poison, what is the point of a poisoning scabbard? If it does, why can you design a quiver that won't depoison an arrow, but can't design a scabbard that won't depoison a sword?
I admit, it is a little bit of a "potion sponge" situation, but clearly the intent is that you cannot "pre-poison" items that are not then kept drawn.
|
|
What about putting a sword in the scabbard? If it does not take off the poison, what is the point of a poisoning scabbard? If it does, why can you design a quiver that won't depoison an arrow, but can't design a scabbard that won't depoison a sword?
You can't ask a question, give your own answer, and then use that answer as a basis for the answer you'd think I give.
I admit, it is a little bit of a "potion sponge" situation, but clearly the intent is that you cannot "pre-poison" items that are not then kept drawn.
The intent of what? Why is this the intent? How did we go from poisoning stuff in between scenarios to poisoning stuff in town? I can't track your thought process here.
A katana for example, does hang in the scabbard without touching it.(or its supposed to anyway)
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
You can't ask a question, give your own answer, and then use that answer as a basis for the answer you'd think I give.
What about putting a sword in the scabbard? If it does not take off the poison, what is the point of a poisoning scabbard? If it does, why can you design a quiver that won't depoison an arrow, but can't design a scabbard that won't depoison a sword?
I didn't. I gave two answers to a yes or no question. I then pointed out that either answer produces a logical conflict and asked how you resolve that logical conflict.
I admit, it is a little bit of a "potion sponge" situation, but clearly the intent is that you cannot "pre-poison" items that are not then kept drawn.The intent of what? Why is this the intent? How did we go from poisoning stuff in between scenarios to poisoning stuff in town? I can't track your thought process here.
A katana for example, does hang in the scabbard without touching it.(or its supposed to anyway)
So you are saying that you can poison a katana, sheath it, and it will stay poisoned. What then is the point of the poison scabbard? The poisoning scabbard (spend a dose of poison, which is then wasted if not used in 4 hours to have your sword poisoned when you draw it ) makes no sense if you could instead just put a dose of poison on your sword and it lasts for ever.
It is not about in town versus wilderness. It is about you can't prepoison everything, store it, and then have it all stay poisoned.
|
|
What about using Craft (Alchemy) to brew their own half-price poisons? So long as they have the Craft ranks, can Vishkanya do that without needing to be the proper class (I've got a Vishkanya Fighter, for example)?
Here's another (I'll admit, significantly sketchier) question: Could a Vishkanya Kineticist apply her poison to physical (NOT energy) blasts?
