Problem with a Sorcerer


As the title says, currently running my first adventure and we on book 3 one of the party members has brought in a new character a enchantment Sorcerer.

The Sorcerer has been built to pretty much max everything in enchantment so the DC's are pretty high and giants have a pretty poor will save.

So my question is how can I balance out the fights to make it bit more even? Possible giving every giant iron will to give them more of a chance to save?

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Well, he invested a lot into enchantment, so it's ok to let it work most of the time. If the martial is able to drop two giants in short time, the enchanter should be able to turn one against the foes (or neutralize two) - about the same effect for same effort. But yes, it's boring if it works too well all the time.

The authors were aware of the problem, check out the foreword of book 2. In addition to the advice there, here are some more ideas:

* Look closely at the actual limits of the spells. For example, Dominate Person doesn't mean this guy is your mindless slave forever. And look for the counters - Protection from X helps, but should be justified (e.g. by a caster who secretly watched the party).

* Add a few smaller creatures. Orcs and ogrekin don't increase the CR much, but with more creatures mind-controlling a single one becomes less effective. It's also more fun for him if he can crush multiple foes with 'his' giant. Area effects like confusion become slightly better with additional small creatures, but it's fun to watch the emerging chaos.

* Use creatures immune to mind-affecting effects - oozes, vermin, undead, plants. They are already present in a few encounters, but you could spice up normal giant encounters with them. Take care not to overdo it and usually provide some creature which can be manipulated. Be aware that he can use metamagic (Coaxing Spell, Threnodic Spell, Verdant Spell) to compensate. Which is ok because he needs the according feats and the spell becomes 2 levels higher.

Confusion is the biggest pain so far to manage as the other party members just sit back and let the giants just nail each most of the time then mop which is fine if that's the way they want to play it but getting the feeling it's getting bit boring.

But thank you for the suggestions, we currently on AP 3 which is just giants with the odd exception encounter. I'll add efw orgekin see how they go, party has a charger and a slayer also which between them do huge amount of damage

Liberty's Edge

I'm a player in this game so just thought I would pop in with that perspective and put some context around it.

The party make up is:

Sorcerer (Enchantment focus)
Cavalier (charger)
Bard (me)

The Slayer and myself are archers - which is arguably the strongest combat style in the game anyway - and the Cavalier has a medium sized mount so aside from difficult terrain, can pretty much charge everywhere. The amount of damage we put out in a given round is nearly game-breaking given our level.

None of us are bored but I know two of the players (Slayer and Sorcerer) seem to have the most fun when totally dominating encounters whereas I personally get the most fun from overcoming a difficult encounter with some two and fro that requires some reactive actions, tactic changes and so on, as opposed to just steamrollering it in one round of full attacks. I love my character, but am thinking of changing him up possibly to a melee bard just to change the dynamic. At the moment, nothing is getting close enough to us to deal damage.

Captain Green - I urge you to give a couple of the bad guys protection in the form of Fickle Winds and Protection from Good although be prepared for the constant stream of moaning at the table!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Also, given the nature of book 3 (the valley) consider having at least one enemy get away from a combat and escape to start spreading word of the group to the rest of the giants. That way in future encounters (maybe an ambush from the hunter or some other more powerful giant) have them open up immediately attacking the sorcerer or bard.

Make the danger of their spells something the giants actively start out trying to remove from the equation.

I know the pain with a mesmerist in my group who is absolutely obsessed with hideous laughter. :/

Hmm, also you could go for reduced sight, with spells like Obscuring Mist, Fog Cloud, Darkness, Deeper Darkness, Invisibility etc.. You can't target what you can't see. Caster levels only count half for CR since giant's main role is combat. Heck, you can even make giants moderately sneaky if you want to, with some ranks in Stealth, and the according Skill Focus. A measly hill giant already has 10 HD, so Skill Focus would give him +6 Stealth.

Personally I am a big fan of earth gliding monsters. Few things are scarier than a big monster suddenly coming out of the wall and longing for you. Alternatively, they could burrow or fly (sunlight might conceal them). Or Alter Self themselves as harmless medium sized humanoids.

Be careful when introducing new tactics - Jamzilla's description sounds like a party who might be in trouble fast, once several giants make it into melee...

Liberty's Edge

To be fair SheepishEidolon, I've been saying that to the rest of the group - both in character and out - for about 5 levels and I think you are absolutely right. Several giants with overlapping reach is going to be a massive problem for us, one I have tried to take steps to address personally through spell selection (Mirror Image, Blur and the like) and by not totally dumping strength so I can at least switch hit in an emergency if I need to. But that's really just papering over the cracks.

We are on a wing and a prayer at the moment, either we deal enough damage to win in two rounds or they close on us and we die. But the huge insurance policy is that the sorcerer's Confusion and other enchantment spells will land about 90% of the time, leading to quite a bit of false security with the others.

Lol I sound like I am naysaying but like I said I've been bringing this up for months and I just hope my bard lives long enough to say "I told you so."

Grand Lodge

You could always have one hang back and throw boulders at the casters, since a giant throwing a bolder at the caster is moderately effective.

They could always hold their action to do so when the casts a spell.

I konw they won't always get it right but the odd time they will, like the first but it could be the last as well.

JamZilla wrote:
But the huge insurance policy is that the sorcerer's Confusion and other enchantment spells will land about 90% of the time, leading to quite a bit of false security with the others.

Sounds like the classic problem of an overly offensive party...

Maybe some looted defensive items can beef up the party, for the moment of the tide turn...

Grand Lodge

Or play to those weaknesses even just once and they will learn.

The GM's duty is to taylor the adventures to the party. If the party being used was in my game, they would have been dead ages ago. Look around for things to counter the parties tacticts, otherwise it will be a very frustrating and boring AP on both sides of the GM screen.

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Thank you for the advice guys, new to being a GM and been enjoying it thus far. The party have gone straight to the the sunken temple and cleared everything along the way, pending which way they go next could be few surprise's.

We have a session tonight so we'll see how it goes from there.

Liberty's Edge

I played an enchanter Kobold once, very hard to stop once the spells fly, first one feat for giants is great for the Giant Mini-leaders you decide to have, the Feat will of Giants makes any Charm Person & Dominate Person Useless against them requiring the Higher level spells of charm monster & Dominate Monster to affect them. Also Charm spells do not cause a creature to obey commands, it just makes them willing to listen and help a friend. (not likely die for said friend in some cases)

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