Incorporeal Creatures and Tremorsense?

[Dragonborn3]

I got into a brief conversation with a friend on if Incorporeal creatures can use Tremorsense. I'd like to think they can, but his logic is that they aren't solid enough to touch earth and stone. And what if they gain Tremorsense instead of naturally having it?

[Claxon]

Personally, I would say incorporeal creature (which cannot move/touch objects without magic like ghost touch) cannot be detected by or use tremorsense.

I don't think this is indicated in the rules anywhere, but that is my opinion of it as tremorsense is based on feeling vibrations in the ground.

[CampinCarl9127]

The rules are silent on the interaction between incorporeal creatures and tremorsense.

While in theory I agree with Claxon, I looked up the ability to brush up.

Tremorsense wrote:

A creature with tremorsense is sensitive to vibrations in the ground and can automatically pinpoint the location of anything that is in contact with the ground.

While it makes sense that physically an incorporeal creature cannot use tremorsense, I see no problem with them having some sort of magical sensitivity to vibrations.

So basically:
Q: If incorporeal creatures can use tremorsense, how does it work?
A: Magic.

I would expect some table variation though; it's a good question.

[SanKeshun]

I agree with CampinCarl.

Only difference I would give is that incorporeal creatures can make Perception checks to hear, so you could argue they have super-sensitive hearing to a very specific frequency, and so have a ridiculously high Perception bonus, but only to hearing people walking/burrowing. That at least gives you a physical excuse for allowing tremorsense.

[OldSkoolRPG]

Unless I am mistaken the OP's question isn't whether an incorporeal creature can be detected with Tremorsense but whether or not they can use Tremorsense themselves.

[CampinCarl9127]

OldSkoolRPG wrote:

Unless I am mistaken the OP's question isn't whether an incorporeal creature can be detected with Tremorsense but whether or not they can use Tremorsense themselves.

...yes? Every single comment this far has been made with that understanding.

[_Ozy_]

Well, unless they are deaf and silent, then are sensitive to, and can produce vibrations in air.

So why should ground be different?

[OldSkoolRPG]

Claxon wrote:

Personally, I would say incorporeal creature (which cannot move/touch objects without magic like ghost touch) cannot be detected by [b]or use tremorsense.

When I read Claxon's post I missed the bolded part and misunderstood Claxon's answer and since your post said you agreed with him I thought you guys were answering the wrong question. Oops, that'll teach me to skim posts (probably won't lol).

[Pizza Lord]

An incorporeal creature definitely cannot be detected with tremorsense (unless it wants to make noise inside the ground) since they are undetectable by almost all non-visual means.

An incorporeal undead with Tremorsense should be able to use it (because otherwise why give it the power), unless it really doesn't make sense (such as a... something with definite feelers suddenly getting an incorporeal template and keeping tremorsense). Obviously Tremorsense is typically assumed to be vibrations through the ground but it could also just be incredibly keen ability to discern the sounds traveling through the solid matter (which carries sound and vibration even better than air.)

If you need to explain it to a player, just say that incorporeal undead have an uncanny ability to automatically sense creatures and objects in adjacent squares to them, even when they are fully inside a solid object, and this particular incorporeal undead is just trained/developed to automatically expand on that power and pinpoint creatures in contact with the ground through inexplicable ability and awareness.

[Oddman80]

Can an incorporeal creature that has the Tremorsense (Ex) ability pinpoint the locations of other incorporeal creatures using their Tremorsense ability?

[Pizza Lord]

Universal Monster Rules - Incorporeal wrote:

An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Perception checks if it doesn’t wish to be. ... Nonvisual senses, such as scent and blindsight, are either ineffective or only partly effective with regard to incorporeal creatures.

I would say an incorporeal creature cannot be detected by Tremorsense unless it was making noises purposefully inside the ground and that noise was what Tremorsense was detecting,