So I am to be playing in a game of Kingmaker starting next week. we are literally just starting, and I am the last person to build a character. We have a Kitsune Oracle, a Sylph Beastmaster, a Dhampir Ghostrider, and a Elfen Dueling Master Alchemist. So yeah, we have a weird party and I have decided to take up the role of the midranged dps capable of moving into melee when I wish but preferring to stay about 10 feet or more from my enemies. Initially I was gonna do the Flying Blade Swashbuckler but we were already kinda charisma heavy (with the oracle and ghostrider) and our alchemist was worried we would be kinda lacking in wisdom. So I have come up with the best idea, lets see if I can do a shuriken based monk using unchained.
Now this build looks promising with a literal tone of auto attacks and a good bab to get behind them but I have run into a major snag, a bunch of the monk abilities only effect their unarmed attacks (ki strike, style strike) and I was wondering if there might be a way to get around these, maybe swap them for other moves or maybe be able to use weapons for less damage like the brawler's strike ability.
Also just looking for some general build advice.
PS: One last thing, I am not opposed to going melee with the monk I would just prefer not to and stick to shurikens for my main source of damage.
Well if you are going short range just flourish with a reach weapon.
Throwing sucks in pathfinder. There are not enough feats and features to make them worthwhile.
A reach weapon gives you the option to hit from far, and it threatens that away space as well. Plus if someone gets in your grill kick'em
If you like the idea of throwing weapons, I would look for ways to enhance it. With mistmail you could hide in your mist and then attack getting sneak attack. The damage becomes alright.
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With the sneak attack dice, shuriken related tricks and ability to use ki to go invisible to get free sneak attacks, a ninja might be a better bet than a monk, for an effective shuriken using build.
I'd love if there was a good set of monk options for shuriken users, perhaps capitalizing on monk features, like their high movement rate, allowing someone to increase thrown weapon damage based on the amount of movement they've performed that round before the throw (adding velocity to damage, as it were), but that would be some custom feat / archetype stuff.
Does it have to be the unchained monk? A far strike monk specialises in thrown weapons. Or a ninja as Set suggests.
...Now this build looks promising with a literal tone of auto attacks and a good bab to get behind them but I have run into a major snag, a bunch of the monk abilities only effect their unarmed attacks (ki strike, style strike) and I was wondering if there might be a way to get around these, maybe swap them for other moves or maybe be able to use weapons for less damage like the brawler's strike ability.
To apply those Unarmed Strike abilities, including your increased damage dice, to Shuriken, you want the Ascetic Style feats.
There are several ways to build a good shuriken monk.
-ifriit or sylph ninja with the respective racial feat letting you see through fog/smoke, then pick either smoke bombs or something giving you fog, like a wand of obscuring mist or a horn of fog. Beware of hampering he party.
Ninja/rogue is good for a dip because of the flurry of starts trick too.
-UC rogue 3 levels gives you weapon finesse, dex to damage and the ninja tricks you want as well as 2d6 sneak attack. This way you can focus on DEX, have higher AC etc and still a good damage. Monk of the mantis or accomplished sneak attack get you more sneak attack.
-normal monk has the far strike archetype, which is pretty good.
-UC monk has better BAB and ki range trick, giving you shuriken with a range increment of 30 feet for one minute.
For ranged feats you want point blank shot and precise shot, maybe clustered shots later, but as a monk you have other means to overcome DR.
Ascetic style, strike and form are really good for you, since it gives you monk damage dice -4 levels on shuriken. Take a monk´s robe and you´re at +1 level.
Startoss style chain can give you +6 on thrown damage overall, pretty good too.
Close quarters thrower and false opening are also feats to consider, especially with sneak attack, since it makes foes flatfooted.
YOu have the option of using a STR build too, what will set in later, but makes more damage overall. Get a lesser belt of hurling to throw with STR on attack instead of DEX. With a cost of 14000 its a middle game item though. That way you could also combine ascetic style chain with dragon style and elemental fist, what adds a lot of damage.
In the beginning of the game, a wand or a friendly cleric with the "blessed fist" spell is also very, very good for you. Since it beats DR/good, stay good untill you can overcome that otherwise.
Also buy some cold iron/silver shuriken untill you´re monk level 7. And adamantine shuriken, you never know^^
Important thing is also to throw in melee combat, you need a way to not provoke. That is mainly the close quarters thrower feat.
Or you still fight with IUS in melee, but then you need either:
-UC rogue dip for weapon finesse and dex to damage
-weapon finesse feat + agile amulet of mighty fists
-STR build with belt of hurling
Decide wether you want to mainly profit from sneak attack if you go for that, what means you need ways of getting it regularly.
That can be provided by flanking (difficult for thrown though), false opening, invisibility tricks, sniping, smoke bombs/obscuring mist with ifriit/sylph racial feats.
You could also be a halfling with the trait that lets you hide behind medium humanoids and go for the feats that lets you snipe twice a round.
If you go for a normal flat damage bonus, you might even take deadly aim or power attack if you can with ascetic style.
Amazingly, you could even do that with a sacred fist warpriest.
Just take ascetic style too, what you can take later for free.
Go air blessing to have a very long range with shuriken and be able to fly from level 10 on.
Buff yourself with blessed fist, fates favored, divine favor, and the rest of the usual spells as your level rises.
You flurry and the damage will be very good too, additionaly you have divine spells and other abilities.
So update:
Set
Ehhhh i don't really like the sneak attack damage build.
SanKeshun
We are selecting our ability scores via point buy with 20 points.
Avr
You bring up a good point.... currently looking at the benefits especially with the startoss style since I'm not technique needing to hold a weapon in my free hand.
Gisher
Kinda requires melee, at the very least requires me to sink a feat into weapon focus for a melee weapon
Hayato Ken
Good ideas but I'm thinking I'm gonna stick with a psuedo strength build simply due to lack of feats in unchained.
...
Gisher
Kinda requires melee, at the very least requires me to sink a feat into weapon focus for a melee weapon...
You do have to take Weapon Focus in one melee weapon, but Unarmed Strike is a valid choice since it is in the Monk Fighter Group. So you will get the +1 to hit with your Unarmed Strike, and then at 5th level you will also get it with your Shuriken and all of the other Monk weapons.
Monk Weapons: bo staff, brass knuckles, butterfly sword, cestus, dan bong, deer horn knife, double chained kama, double chicken saber, emei piercer, fighting fan, hanbo, jutte, kama, kusarigama, kyoketsu shoge, lungchuan tamo, monk's spade, nine-ring broadsword, nine-section whip, nunchaku, quarterstaff, rope dart, sai, sansetsukon, seven-branched sword, shang gou, shuriken, siangham, tiger fork, tonfa, unarmed strike, and wushu dart
May I suggest Treantmonk's guide here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/treantmon k-s-guide-to-monks
Its core only, so there's probably some more interesting options to add, but I think his ideas give you a solid starting point.
Well for that i would play an UC human monk.
STR 15 (+2 racial), DEX 14, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 15, CHA 7.
Human for +2 STR, bonus feat and skill point, or dual talent for additional +2 on WIS.
Feats: Point Blank Shot + Precise Shot
Monk Bonus Feat: Dodge
Traits: Roving Range (+5 on thrown weapons range increment from wepaon masters handbook), something bonus on willsave, martial manuscript, quain martial artist or monk weapon skill.
12 CON would be too low for my taste.
Feats to consider later:
-close quarters thrower (provoking while attacking really sucks)
-weapon focus shuriken
Then i would either go
-ascetic style + dragon style + elemental fist
-ascetic style + startoss style
Ask your GM wether he lets you upgrade a lesser belt of hurling to a belt of physical perfection or a +4 STR belt. The hurling thing should cost 10.000gp extra overall, +4000 for normal +2 STR belt, and then add whatever the remaining cost of the belt you want.
Also ask the rest of the party if they can get mage armor, blessed fist, magic weapon, greater magic weapon and magic vestment cast on you. And barkskin. Then you should be fine.
Unchained Monk would then have AC 15 (19 with mage armor) and 12-13hp at level 1 and throw shuriken at +3/+3 for 1d2+3(4 depending on trait).
Since shuriken have a range increment of 10 feet (15 with the right trait), you really want to get close there. That will mostly trigger point blank shot for +4/+4 (1d2+4/5), you are in melee danger then though and need that AC and hp.
Thinking about this, the roving range trait is really best for you, since you else either take -2 on attacks for range increment or might find yourself provoking from larger foes pretty fast. What makes the close quarters thrower feat really good too.
The main difference between normal monk and unchained is that you get less attacks from flurry, but you have full BAB, so you hit better.
You also have more hp, but your willsave isn´t as good, what makes WIS more important for you. Boosting willsave with a trait or feat isn´t a bad idea either.
Actually there´s a mistake on the roving range trait, that doesn´t work for thrown weapons, only for other ranged weapons. Sad story.
For an Unchained Monk guide, THIS is THE Unchained Monk Guide. For a Classic Monk guide, Treantmonk's guide is way out of date, and you need this guide to blended archetypes and (if you select Master of Many Styles) this guide to the Master of Many Styles. None of these are Shuriken-specific, but you will need them for other stuff, and they are all vintage this year, and thus as up to date as you can get.
Only that the guide so far said shuriken monk sucks...what isn´t really true.
Probably.
A sacred fist warpriest with air blessing has the benefits of not provoking and no range increments though, what makes it pretty awesome in my book.
I like the monk (martial artist) for a shuriken monk. You get the flurry still, which lets you get a lot of steel in the air. Plus, the martial artist archetype lets you take fighter feats. So a human could take point blank shot and precise shot at 1st, weapon focus (shuriken) at 3rd, weapon specialization (shuriken) at 5th, etc. The find weakness ability of the archetype will help you bypass DRs and maximize the damage with each hit.