price of custom item - Pan pipe


Rules Questions


How much would a personalized item like the panpipe used by fauns be worth?
"Panpipes (Su)

Three times per day, a faun can use its masterwork panpipes to augment its spell-like abilities. Doing so is a swift action that increases the DC of the next spell-like ability it uses on its turn by +2."

So let's say it only works for enchantment spells and spell-like abilities, three times per day, and the character must use a move action and a Perform DC15 check to use the flute.

What would be the item's price?


You're basically creating a magic item that adds a better-but-also-limited version of the Spell Focus (or just a limited Greater Spell Focus) feat.

The designers generally frown on this. See this thread for one of many examples

If you're set on doing it, and this one doesn't seem too bad in terms of game balance, I'd set the price as follows:

Over the years I've seen countless threads on this. The general opinion is that a basic feat should start at about 5,000gp as a magic item, while much more awesome feats might be much more pricey. So let's start there.

But this is really two feats. Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus. Based on that, it's a minimum base price of 5,000 + 5,000x1.5) = 12,500, but since Greater Spell Focus is somewhat better than a basic feat, I'm going to round up to 15,000.

But those feats would only work on Enchantment spells but not on SLAs, so you're expanding the power of the item. Maybe 25,000gp now.

But you're limiting to a single race which reduces the cost by 10%. And you're requiring a skill check to use it which might be worth an additional -10%. Reducing the item's price down to 20,000gp.

You're also limiting it to 3/day, so 20,000 / (5/3) = 12,000gp final price.

IMO, that sounds a bit low, so maybe I started with too low a base price in the first place. But it might be OK.

As a final note, I would not ever have any merchant anywhere buy these for any price. Who are they going to sell them to? Unless that merchant knows he has some wealthy faun customers, he's NEVER going to sell it, so he would never buy it.


The DC15 skill check isn't significant enough to reduce the price imo. While it's nice flavour it's usually insignificant because you are designing it for a specific character who can 'take 1' and make the DC at level 5.
That's also why I never use the 'single race' discount either.

That said 12-15k seems about right. I'd price it initially at 20k. If it turns out to be underwhelming I would have the player get a bit of a windfall (maiden aunt thinks they need some money to encourage them to settle down and marry or something) to compensate. It's always easier to add than to take away.


Sorry, got to go, but I'd recommend:

Works spell levels 1-3 (1500 gp)
4-6 (5,500 gp)
7-9 (12,250 gp)

Better affect than Focused Metamagic Rod: x2 price
Requires a move action, and only functions for Enchantment (though SLAs included): x1/4


A 75% discount is too good. Metamagic rods already require a move action for spontaneous casters. I'd use a two-level increase metamagic rod price with no reduction, since it stacks with metamagic and spell focus.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

I'd probably look to Monk's Robes as the similar item. They make the monk's AC +1 and their unarmed +1 die. For 13,000 gp.

Another maybe more straight forward example would be the Gloves of Dueling for 16,000 gp that grants +2 to Fighter's ability.

So somewhere between 13,000 gp and 16,000 gp should be fair.


10K gold is way too much. What about it gives only a +1? But it would not be restricted by race. Good idea making it work only for level 1-3.
Then it would cost less than a +2 STAT headband, even if it's slotless?
I need it for a party of 3rd-4th level.

I intend to make a non-combat encounter (unless my players think otherwise), flavourful and entertaining, with a group of fauns and mockingfeys; if it is well played the fauns may decide to give one of their pipes to the characters...


DM_Blake wrote:
As a final note, I would not ever have any merchant anywhere buy these for any price. Who are they going to sell them to? Unless that merchant knows he has some wealthy faun customers, he's NEVER going to sell it, so he would never buy it.

UMD.

Typical Bard: "Füdelüü, füdelaa, I am a Faum, tra la la"


Gut feeling says 10-15k. It locks you out from metamagic rods, and Enchantment DCs, specifically, are easy to push into the stratosphere.


Anonymous Warrior wrote:

Sorry, got to go, but I'd recommend:

Works spell levels 1-3 (1500 gp)
4-6 (5,500 gp)
7-9 (12,250 gp)

Better affect than Focused Metamagic Rod: x2 price
Requires a move action, and only functions for Enchantment (though SLAs included): x1/4

Focused metamagic is probably a closer parallel than Spell Focus and GSF.

It is though not unlimited in and of itself, as it requires multiple targets, which is only a subset of spells, and generally those would have weaker effects than a single target spell of the same level.

I think that enchantment spells only is easily as powerful as multi-target spells, maybe even more so. In addition, if it is a multi-target enchantment the higher DC will be for all targets, not just one.

Including SLAs is nice, but unless the race has a very powerful SLA it is probably irrelevant. Actual spells will be more useful and the 3/day limit means having a theoretical option for as SLA is probably only that, theoretical.

I also assume that the Faun Pan Pipes are the inspiration for the magic item, but that the OP doesn't intend for it to only be usable by Fauns or to replace the special ability of Fauns (who have a native ability to enhance their magic with pipes, rather than carrying magical pipes.)

The move action is tough to price out. It does mean that it is impossible to use in a single round if you don't have it in hand. Actions are very important, but for most characters the move action is least important. I think I would call this an extra penalty to counter act the extra power of the all enchantment spells vs. one out of a multi-target spell.

So I would price this as exactly like a Focused Meta Magic Rod: 3,000, 11,000 and 24,500. Interestingly this mid-range is fairly close to DM_Blakes feat based calculation, which makes it seem this is in the ball park.


QuidEst wrote:
Metamagic rods already require a move action for spontaneous casters.

I have never agreed with this rule. It doesn't make any sense.

Regular use of the feat taking longer, since they don't have to specifically prepare a spell makes sense, but when using a Rod Wizards don't have to specifically prepare the spell either, so Spontaneous casters shouldn't get boned.

If Sorcerers need to take longer to cast a spell with a rod, then Wizards should have to use the rod when preparing spells (as they would if they had the feat), not spontaneously choose when casting them.

I know that is how the rules say it should be, but it is dumb and something I change in my games.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / price of custom item - Pan pipe All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.