Eh, with 2 million gold to spend just on us and the 1.5 to spend on improving our bases/minions, I don't mind too much.
Fun fact: mithral full plate for a colossal dragon costs 57,000 gold.
I didn't realize how much size changed the prices of armor!
The reason we aren't using the weapon/armor progression is because when we tried to use it in the online recruitment for the hero side of this game, it lead to massive confusion and arguments.
However, the other bonuses are still just as integral to any build at this level that we will just use those and do away with the problematic stuff.
... Fair enough. The attunement system is hardly simple.
Why they just didn't give you a blank + to enchantment, that goes down by 1 if you have more than one weapon is beyond me.
I really like the system overall, but the problem arose from determining a specific armor or weapon, and than adding to it.
I seriously don't want to rehash it, as that argument gave me quite the headache, but I promise its just easier this way.
Or at least less stressful.
Fair enough.
unfortunately making characters of this high level is not something i am discovering I have time for unless I was playing such a character.
I did have an assassin type though up but with so many custom stuff and 3rd party stuff, I can't go through it all, and thus may end up with something that looks good on paper but is quickly proven useless in play.
There's very little 3pp stuff allowed. The only 3rd party classes are DSP psionics, because I feel they fit the overall theme of Veiled Master quite nicely.
Other 3pp stuff, like feats, archetypes, spells, etc are mostly a case by case basis.
The rules are like 98% Paizo material.
Speaking of rules, this should be all of them, compiled:
Level 35 Gestalt
Prestige Classes are allowed, but must be on a side that qualifies for it.
Race Any, including monsters and custom. CR takes up one half of your gestalt. (I believe that's the norm, lol)
HOWEVER, the creature in question MUST either have some form of innate ability to change shape(the special quality, a SLA, or a spell known) that is at least equivalent to Alter Self. OR it must be have class levels that allow it to cast Alter Self or a more powerful spell.
If you are going to build a custom race you may either:
A) Take an existing race, and upgrade it to 50 total Race Points(Ie an Aasimar is 15 RP. You could spend up to 35 additional RP to upgrade it) or
B) Make a brand new race with 50 race points.
If you choose to make a brand new creation, you MUST include some sort of societal history if its a full on race, or a really good backstory if its a one-shot experiment type creation.
Ability Scores Base 12, 30 point buy, 1 to 1 ratio.
Mythic 6 tiers of mythic.
Sources Any Paizo. Dreamscarred Press psionics. Beyond that, minor things like feats, traits, spells, etc from 3pp is fine, but must be approved by me first.
No other 3pp classes aside from DSP psionics allowed, even other DSP stuff.
Legendary Games Mythic Mania stuff, auto accepted as well.
Templates Yes, but I will be posting an approved list later you can choose ONE from for free(aka no level hit). Otherwise, no.
Wealth/Gear Automatic Bonus Progression with a slight adjustment:
Armor/shields and weapons are bought as normal.
If some mathematically awesome person could do me a favor and determine how much gold a 35th level character should have based on the WBL chart, I would greatly appreciate it. Same for the legendary gifts used by ABP.
Also, you get a signature item, that is the roughly a minor artifact in terms of uniqueness and power for free. Make it awesome lads and lasses, lol.
Leadership You get this feat for free. We heroes did as well, cuz even at 25th gestalt, you're freakin famous enough to auto get this. Use this chart Epic Leadership to determine cohort and followers. Also, you get a +5 to your score in addition to what you feel you should get via Vile Leadership
Favored Minion Another cool bonus we heroes have is we each have a favored minion that's an outsider of some sort that we call/summon.
Feel free to create one as well, choosing from any of the various outsider races, adding an additional 15 gestalt levels to its racial HD.
Special Powers/Unique Abilities Villains, especially epic, ultra uber badasses, need some stuff to set them apart from the not just the heroes, but also more common evil.
Create 3-5 unique powers or abilities that fit your villain. Feel free to go a little nuts, but please keep yourselves in check. No auto wins or unbeatables, please. These should be roughly around the power of a capstone. Make them unique, like super powers almost.
Approved templates:
Blood Knight, Dread Lich, Dread Vampire, Graveknight, Half-Celestial, Half-Dragon, Half-Fiend(all types), Inveigler, Lycanthrope, Mummy Lord, any simple(except Advanced). No simple class templates.
Others may be approved upon asking.
Regrading alignment and thus overall backstory:
Generally speaking, yes, these characters should be evil. You are the deepest of darks, hidden underneath layers upon layers of lies, deceit, and manipulations.
Each of you should have ties to at the least 2-3 groups/organizations/religions/countries/etc and how they work towards whatever nefarious ends you have in store.
3pp archetypes can be asked for. Chakram Dervish is fine.
Please post characters here, so they can be looked over by all. The more eyes on high level insanity, the better.
For monster ability scores, I think it should be alright to keep them as is, more or less. If you want to make some slight adjustments(moving some points from Str to say Int) that's fine.
Obviously, if you're going this route, you no longer get the point buy from above, as in many(most) cases straight monster stats are a heck of a lot better than a 30 point buy. I don't want players to feel constrained to just monsters however, and I encourage you all create as best you see fit.
Dread Wraith, and other incorporeal templates are not allowed. They are too strong, and too easily broken.
Classes above 20: Take new classes. Its just so much more simple that way.
No to quickling. While you can get around the rapid aging rate, it's kinda cheating, and obviously these villains are all supposed to incredibly old.
Which reminds me: You all no longer age naturally. Yes, this is an effective form of immortality, but it only applies to dying of old age.
Ravener is an approved template.
Starting wealth: 2 million.
You also get an additional 1.5 to use on any background plot stuff, such as fortresses, demiplanes, armies, etc. None of this extra gold can be used to directly increase the power of your villain.
Extra info:
Most of the PCs are good. I believe the only one who is not is LN with good leanings.
I'm guessing that the PCs will be around level 28 and mythic tier 3 or possibly 4 by the time my story begins.
While I do not need a massively in-depth backstory, I do require at least a sort of bullet point run down of things you have done, plots you have in motion, enemies and allies you have made, etc.
Each PC is tied to several groups in Golarion. Many of them are open for you all to use, save for the following:
The church of Iomedae. Groups, factions, etc tied to her are fair game, but the actual church itself is off limits.
Eagle Knights, Riftwardens and the exiled/forgotten Orders of the Hellknights(The overall faction is fair game, but there's like 3 or 4 that are listed in their write up as exiled/forgotten/extinct. Those are off limits).
Beyond that, one PC is all about Androan, one was born in Hermea and operates out of Absalom, one is based in Nirmathas and the last is a Hellknight and descendant of Asmodeus, and from Cheliax.
Cohorts are gestalt. Build them with a normal 30 point buy.
Favored Minions, which you must have the ability to call or summon(they aren't perma pets), can be any CR. Then add gestalt to get it to 30.
Max HP per level. Should go without saying as this level, but just making sure.
Familiars: If you get one via a class feature, you automatically get the benefits of Improved Familiar. Also, all familiars get 75% of their master's HP, not 50%. This should help keep them a bit more useful at this level.
All companions(Familiars, Animal, Mounts, etc): Automatically receive the Advanced template as well as one bonus template chosen by you. Again, be reasonable. Dire is allowed for Animal Comp or Mount.
Also they will get one mythic template, and will thus be mythic creatures/sources where that matters.
Finally, animal companions/mounts will get full HP.
Cohorts are mythic, I forgot to mention that. Make them tier 3, and your villains should be tier 6, not 5, like I originally said.
Familiars, Animal Companions, Mounts, etc all receive on mythic template, thus making them mythic.
Favored minions(I really need a better name here, lol) are not mythic. However, should you truly desire yours to be, I would allow you to use one of your special abilities to gain a mythic version. Their tier can not be higher than your own, so no mythic Balors, for example.
As for how you call/summon them, Gate, Summon Monster, Ally/Binding, etc are all acceptable means. There's also some other class features that allow you call forth an outsider.
Also, there's plenty of ways to learn an outsider's True Name. If you want to go this route, we can work out details like cost and research time, as well as the specific of the agreement.
I've looked over some of the PDF(its LONG) and so far, I like what I see. My brother is also interested, though of course he wants to read through some of it himself.
Finally, yes, you may submit more than one villain. I might even choose them both, depending on much I like them. And this goes for everybody, too!
Animal Companions progress ala the epic progression found in the link Fury towards the bottom of page 1.
Cohorts can have 1 special ability, and they also get a free template as well from the approved list. As they are cohorts, and thus seconadary characters, you may also purchase template for them as normal, still from the approved list, but please, nothing too crazy.
... Didn't exactly format that very well did you? Talking about the approved list of templates, then adding the Ravener on a separate line, as well as the Quickling Denial...
Then there is where you ask for someone to calculate the gold for the Automatic Bonus Progression, then later down the line you drop how much gold we have, and how much we have to spend on others that can't be used to directly buff us.
... Didn't exactly format that very well did you? Talking about the approved list of templates, then adding the Ravener on a separate line, as well as the Quickling Denial...
Then there is where you ask for someone to calculate the gold for the Automatic Bonus Progression, then later down the line you drop how much gold we have, and how much we have to spend on others that can't be used to directly buff us.
Seriously bro? I just copy/pasted and made some quick corrections where needed.
You want formatted? Go back to the first page, and everything looks all nice...
Could of spent a few minutes in order to format it fully. It wouldn't of taken THAT long...
What, you think I haven't had the thought cross my mind?
I'm gonna, I'm just going to wait for a more complete set of rules. The full decision on Legendary Gifts and the Epic Pathfinder pdf.
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With a fuller make rules outline in posted, I think i'm going to change my Idea a little, think it will be an Incarnate body snatcher, taking over bodys and Throllmind [Hurdmind] controlling them.
It would have no true self, just a hive mind and linked pionicly possessed body's. It will have hidden personality seeds ready to spring into life.
Lind of like a Psionic Virus. Again the idea of a baddy of a 1000'ed faces.
As a baddy for a party to fight, the they can take out the infected hosts over and over, They could be anyone, coming to light at any time.
That could lead to a lot of fun play. Not a mega 'Fight it' villain, but a constant threat one.
Mine is pretty much a "destroy everything, release Rovagug if possible, animate the dead bodies" kind of villain.
Easily a mega "fight it" villain, after you've worked your way through her horde.
Clearly, and in the most elegant of simplicity, evil.
Mine is pretty simply as well. Basically they view civilization at the high levels as evil, and seeks to reduce everyone to tribes and villages.
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So, Monkeygod, I should probably ask if you're ok with a villain who is functionally immune to hit point damage. Technically he just regenerates so fast that I have yet to find a source of damage that could kill him. Ever. Some Min-maxed One-hit monsters might pull it off, but it's not likely. How do you feel about that. The party would be essentially forced to talk it out.
Aye, as far as I know, there's no regeneration that can't be over come by something. If you have somehow managed to pull off a regen that can't be overcome, you will have to come up with something, perhaps super rare and difficult to obtain that bypasses you regen, but I said in the very beginning, No unkillable entries.
Right now, my rough average damage(Not sure if I was fully buffed or not) is around 94 per hit. On a crit, you're looking at 282 average. I can get off 7 attacks a round, if I spend two mythic power points. Also, on a crit, I overcome your regen, no matter what it is. Thanks Exploit Weakness.
Actually, its not that his regeneration is hard to overcome. At least from what I can tell, but his regeneration/fast healing is so high, that its very difficult to overcome.
Going from your numbers, assuming 7 all seven attacks hit, that's an average of 658 damage a turn. I would honestly be extremely surprised if someone has fast healing/regenation that could hit the 100 mark, let alone the 500 mark.
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Actually, its not that his regeneration is hard to overcome. At least from what I can tell, but his regeneration/fast healing is so high, that its very difficult to overcome.
Going from your numbers, assuming 7 all seven attacks hit, that's an average of 658 damage a turn. I would honestly be extremely surprised if someone has fast healing/regenation that could hit the 100 mark, let alone the 500 mark.
My character (through his minions) will heal himself through that without taking an action. ;)
... Okay. THAT is impressive. Kinda blowing my Vitalist Cohort out of the water there...
Hmmm... I currently do an average 70 damage on attack, and can attack ten times, five with each weapon. On a critical hit, I do an average off 329 damage. So, whilst my damage per hit is lower, I get a lot more attacks per round and do a lot of damage with them. That's without taking into account Deadly Aim of course.
Add onto what I have planed for my special powers... and yeah, I think I'm good on the number department.
I believe that it takes up a number of levels equal to its CR, and as he said above, you don't use the point buy for ability scores.
I, personally, am using a Great Wyrm Void Dragon (CR 21), which leaves me with 14 levels on that side, and the full 35 on the other.
While the numbers, powers and abilities are important, what is far more important, and will be the deciding factors of my choosing which villains to use is how her or she fits into Golarion, what connections he or she has to both history and current events, and what ties they have to various groups, nations and organizations.
Right now, the entries that intrigue me the most are Bigrig's dragon, Oterisk's living forest, and Fnord's mouse.
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While the numbers, powers and abilities are important, what is far more important, and will be the deciding factors of my choosing which villains to use is how her or she fits into Golarion, what connections he or she has to both history and current events, and what ties they have to various groups, nations and organizations.
Right now, the entries that intrigue me the most are Bigrig's dragon, Oterisk's living forest, and Fnord's mouse.
Ya, I haven't revealed much about the story yet. Don't worry. I have one brewing.
I tend to figure out the mechanics first, and then do the fluff... I find it easier to make the fluff when I have something to build up off from, and I do have some ideas about it as well, through I'm still wondering how to make it really shine.
Please note, that was not a criticism. I love building high level, badass characters myself, so I get the excitement a character creation like this creates.
Twas more of an important reminder that, especially for this game, your backstory is equally as important.
Also, another reminder:
You do not need a massive, multi page monstrosity of a history. Bullet point type short paragraphs about the key and important moments, events, accomplishments, set backs, etc are sufficient.
However, if you so desire to write up a more solid, concise background, that's perfectly acceptable. I just don't want you guys to waste time writing a small novel for a character that not only may not be chosen, but may actually never see play depending on the actions of the PCs and what happens in game.
Never really took it as a criticism either, I was just stating why I hadn't thought much of my story yet.
Regarding the epic pdf:
I'll allow it, but with the following in place:
1) No epic class progression
2) Anything chosen by the players must then be approved by me.
3) *IF* during actual game play something ends up being far more powerful than anticipated, and I say you must swap it out for something else, please no arguing.
4) No unique epic spells. Slots past 9th level are only for metamagic feats.
5) I reserve the right to add or change what's allowed later. I will not be a jerk about it and will attempt to tweek choices vs flat out banning them.
So the cap, essentially is 20? You're better off switching to another class instead of going to 21?
There's practically nothing good, really, beyond 20 in the same class. Just more of pre-20 stuff. Which is one of my biggest complaints of epic, and one of the things I like most about mythic.
Prestige Classes are also available, so you could go 20 base class, 10 PrC, 5 something else, on each side, if you so desired.
Hmmm... everything needs to be requested? Alright, here's what I'm going to request at first. I'm going to ask for the Battlegod feat line, that's Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization, Weapon Supremacy, Warlord and Battlegod.
On top of that, I'm going to request that as I have Soulknife 15 and Dark Tempest 10, my Enhanced mind blade class feature increases over the +9 at level 19, but instead is +12, due to having an effective enhanced mind blade level of 25. If you desire, I can fold this into one of my character's special abilities. I would also like to request the 'Force' epic weapon special property.
Its not so much you need to request stuff, as much as its my not wanting to fully read every feat and item in the book right now.
I probably will eventually, but I wanted to give you an answer. Thus the 'I gotta approve everything' being the best I can offer.
This way I only need to read what you guys are using.
That's fair.
Can I use the 3PP Cavalier Archetype, Inspiring Commander please?
Dude! That archetype is I dont know how much it will be felt at higher levels (havent checked yet) but at lower levels? Bonkers...
lvl 1 you can grant someone +7 to hit and to AC for a round, with only a trait and 16 int... Then add on bardic performance. And cover (+4 AC) from body shield teamwork feat.......
By the time you get Bodyguard That is +7 AC to anyone standing beside you, almost all the time... At what? lvl 3?
+7 AC, To hit or to most skills, as a move action, or even as an AoO...
Utterly bonkers....