Hello, new to D&D/PF here. I'm in the process of making my first character for my first campaign ever, and could use a little advice.
I decided I wanted to play a crafting character, and decided to start off as a White Mage archetype Arcanist. After that, I would drop 1 level into a crossblooded sorcerer with the impossible and arcane bloodlines. In this way, I would take the extra arcanist exploit feat at level 1 (Since white mages give up their lvl 1 arcanist exploit for cure spells) and select the bloodline development exploit.
In this way I should be able to add my arcanist level to my sorcerer level when determining bloodline powers and abilities (Which my DM and I interpret as powers and spells) and means that I will have access to spells such as animate objects that normally I would need a divine caster for. Most spells from these bloodlines I can scribe into my arcanist book in order to cast, while others may require the use of my arcane bond item from the arcane bloodline to cast (since my sorcerer level will be level 1, but the arcane bond item power is based on arcanist+sorcerer levels via the description!)
All of this means that I should be able to craft permanent animated constructs, golems, and other wondrous items at very low levels due to the spontaneous generation power of the impossible bloodline at lvl 3 (granting the craft wondrous item feat and the ability to ignore a spell requirement on a crafted item at lvl 3). On top of that, I boosted my effective spellcraft level to 11 at level 1 thorugh traits, class and attribute bonuses, since I discovered that spellcraft could be used as the crafting check for magical and wondrous items instead of the associated crafting skill.
After hearing my plans during our 1 on 1 character discussion pre-campaign (he's doing it with everyone but we're good friends anyhow so we've discussed it at length), however, the DM decided to implement a couple of "house rules" in order to keep the game fun for everyone. His changes were:
-wondrous items require a blueprint to craft (through research or other means)
-the crafting rule for ignoring a crafting requirement (other than feats) in order to take a +5 DC on the crafting check cannot be used on the gold cost, and when used on the spell requirement (not counting spontaneous generation's spell ignoring ability) it will increase the DC check by 3x the spell level ignored
-spontaneous generation power of the impossible bloodline, when used to ignore a spell requirement, will impose a +2 DC to the crafting check instead of 0
-I'm not allowed to take traits such as inspired or tireless logic, among others.
-certain wondrous items may be limited/changed (i'm guessing he means things like the infinitely stacking +int enhancement ioun stones or the wish-crafted stat enhancement books, but i'm not sure)
His reason for these changes is that the game will be mostly made up of people like myself that are playing PF/D&D for the first time ever, but that they're not "Meta Gaming" as hard as I am, and that early game wondrous items will simply be game-breaking compared to my fellow players' capabilities. I understood that and didn't argue, but now I'm wondering if I should even bother with my crafting character that I wanted to play, or just roll a magus or something.
I did have an idea in mind for a skirnir-magus that could be interesting, but I really had my heart set on role-playing the "arcane artisan" of sorts. I don't want my endeavors to be fruitless though. Any advice would be helpful.
I'm a bit confused... You are never able to ignore the gold cost of the base items when crafting - so even if you crafted EVERYTHING the party ever purchased, you would only ever be able to get to 2x standard party wealth.
But your ability to do that is completely contingent on the GM and his (or her) pacing of the game. If he thinks you are sitting around crafting too much - bring on the distracting conflicts that prevent you from crafting. Keep you away from towns where you can trade in the random stuff you have acquired for gold - you cannot make a +2 belt of constitution by using 2000 gold worth of swords, shields and armor...
Making the crafting DC's untenable just seems odd.
I will point out that you also seem to be under a misconception. If you crafted twenty +2 enhancement bonus to Intelligence Ioun Stones, and activated all of them at the same time... You would still only have a +2 enhancement bonus to Intelligence, because LIKE-BONUSES don't stack with one another. Wearing a +4 belt of giants strength and then having Bulls Strength cast on you is redundant, no extra strength is gained.
You also cannot make money selling wondrous items you made, as items sell at 50% (the same 50% you had to put out to MAKE the item in the first place.
Hey Rub-Eta, thanks for the welcome!
Your point about the extra arcanist exploit might be valid, but since it worked in PCgen I think he was ok with it. The bloodline development feat, on the other hand, has wording at the end of the ability that indicates how it would affect any bloodline that your sorcerer class level possesses, instead of actually needing to choose a bloodline for your arcanist levels to boost.
As for the craft construct feat, I intend to pick it up ASAP. I'm starting as a human with the extra exploit and the magical aptitude feat, just because I thought any permanent construct could probably wait til my next feat point.
As for his house rules, I'll talk to him but I'm not going to make a huge fuss over it. The interpretation for the gold cost was a bit fuzzy on the crafting rules page, and seemed like it allowed for virtually any requirement other than feats to be substituted for +5DC. I think he also said I'd need a base version of the item to craft (or possibly materials) in addition to the gold cost if applicable. We'll see how it goes. Your point about the time required to craft, however, was mostly a non-issue in his eyes because he said the party could just wait around for a few days (or during downtime) in order to instantly acquire these crazy items.
I know he's a bit of a D&D veteran but I think you're right that he hasn't DM'd many times in the past. Since I'm the brand new player, I'm not going to push the issue with him. I'm just wondering if I should choose a different character path rather than put up with such limitations.
Hi oddman, thanks for the reply.
Yeah the gold crafting cost thing was probably mostly a misinterpretation on both of our parts, since he hadn't really dealt much with crafting in his previous campaigns. Apparently nobody took interest in it. As for the party wealth guidelines, he said he'd reward good RP, and I planned on opening a superstore to sell my crafted items as a merchant would. Possibly decked out with golem workers and everything.
For your point about the ioun stones... I misspoke about the bonuses in question. I was referring to the +2 enhancement stones that can stack 3 times for a +6, as well as the infinitely stacking temporary HP stones
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun- stones/emerald-ellipsoid-ioun-stone
I'm wondering if it's all worth bothering with though. Maybe he'd prefer me to just play a magus. I've also considered a variation of the arcanist that isn't focused on crafting, but substitutes one of his bloodlines for a psychic bloodline so that I can wear heavy armor and shield without an arcane casting penalty. I'd probably need to point drop for proficiency though so it may be better to just go skirnir.
|
Looking over Bloodline Development it would appear there are some misunderstandings. Maybe I didn't correctly read your process, but....
The arcanist selects one sorcerer bloodline upon taking this exploit.
[edited out something incorrect caused by a failure to read carefully]
Looking over Bloodline Development it would appear there are some misunderstandings. Maybe I didn't correctly read your process, but....
The arcanist selects one sorcerer bloodline upon taking this exploit.[edited out something incorrect caused by a failure to read carefully]
Bloodline Development
The arcanist selects one sorcerer bloodline upon taking this exploit. The arcanist gains that bloodline's 1st-level bloodline power as though she were a 1st-level sorcerer. The arcanist must select an ordinary bloodline with this ability, not one altered by an archetype. As a swift action, the arcanist can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to bolster her latent nature, allowing her to treat her arcanist level as her sorcerer level for the purpose of using this ability, which lasts for a number of rounds equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1). She does not gain any other abilities when using this exploit in this way, such as bloodline arcana or those bloodline powers gained at 3rd level or higher. If this ability is used to gain an arcane bond and a bonded item is selected, the arcanist can only use that item to cast spells of a level equal to the level of spell that could be cast by her equivalent sorcerer level (limiting her to 1st level spells unless she spends a point from her arcane reservoir). If the arcanist already has a bloodline (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted her access to the bloodline when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline.
My lvl 1 sorcerer point drop is for a crossblooded sorcerer archetype.
|
|
Since you're a first-time player, I also have to point out that playing a spell caster is a hard thing to do. You should probably ignore my previous advice about playing a crafting wizard, since it's about the hardest thing to play (so much to keep track of). Though that's not to say that you shouldn't play a spell caster, it's really fun. Though you should know that it does take a lot. It will be rewarding if you're able to invest yourself. It will be very boring and irritating if not.
^ Kind of this. Crafting Casters are pretty much the most broken thing in the game. With a little time to prepare and swap around equipment, the party can pretty much guarantee it will rarely if ever be caught in a clutch. Unless the GM is prepared to carefully manage your character, then the items available will quickly get away from him. Even if he forces you to personally craft every item for the party, the opportunity to make made-to-order sets of gear is going to significantly change the way the game provides challenges. As long as your GM is prepared for that, then the character should be fine. You clearly have enough interest to read associated powers and look for synergies, so I think you'll be alright no matter how you go.
|
|
@Zeoh Yes I read the bottom half of the feat, too. That doesn't change the very first line of the exploit. As written you select one. If your character has access to one (or more) then you get to use your levels to advance that (single) bloodline you chose.
It's your game, so if your GM and you are comfortable not playing it as written, that's okay.
I would like to point out that a Sorcerer takes a serious hit to get Cross-blooded and access two bloodlines. (Arguably it creates a vastly inferior caster. Look at the Sorcerer Guides for details.) Being able to access and advance them both for essentially one feat equivalent, and only by dipping one level is a bit much. Comparable access is through Eldritch Heritage, which requires four feats as I recall.
@Zeoh Yes I read the bottom half of the feat, too. That doesn't change the very first line of the exploit. As written you select one. If your character has access to one (or more) then you get to use your levels to advance that (single) bloodline you chose.
I thought the italicized instead basically meant to ignore everything before that line if you already had a bloodline(s) provided from another class?
And since both bloodlines are standard, not altered bloodlines from a different archetype (although I suppose you could argue they're being altered by crossblooded since you choose between each ability and power, but I thought it more referred to substituted archetype versions of bloodlines that change the powers all together) then the line:
"The arcanist must select an ordinary bloodline with this ability, not one altered by an archetype."
shouldn't really be an issue (or so i thought!)
I'll have to talk to him more about it. Last time we spoke though we both agreed that since both bloodlines are on the main sorcerer page and not third-party, they'd both be eligible to fall under the rules of the last sentence on the exploit.
|
|
@Zeooh: It would be instead of this function, you get to simply advance in bloodline powers. Again, if your GM and table wants to run it differently, then that's up to you. I'm not here to tell you how you must play.
As a swift action, the arcanist can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to bolster her latent nature, allowing her to treat her arcanist level as her sorcerer level for the purpose of using this ability, which lasts for a number of rounds equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1). She does not gain any other abilities when using this exploit in this way, such as bloodline arcana or those bloodline powers gained at 3rd level or higher.
And the caveat...
The arcanist must select an ordinary bloodline with this ability, not one altered by an archetype.
Which Cross-blooded is.
Again, it's your table. You guys just need to do what's fun for the gang you play with. Just remember that once you start crafting Immovable Rods along with your other items, things just start going nuts. The sheer versatility of well chosen items is going to be very difficult to stop and often require custom rules decisions on the spot.
[edited for clarity]
One quick question for you guys though.
Just in case I do decide to make a magus instead to avoid all of these complications, can anybody think of a good way to use a shield as a magus without becoming a skirnir and losing knowledge pool? I'd like to avoid the arcane failure chance while using something better than a light mithril shield. (Towers would be amazing, but heavy would work)
I ask because, if I'm reading it correctly, I can learn a brand new spell each day of my choosing and scribe it directly into my magus spellbook. This seemed very powerful to me since my DM's setting involves a very very scarce percentage of the population being magic users (I believe he said something like 1/1000 being arcane or divine caster, and even then they may not know it or may not show it around others) so the ability to generate my own permanent spellbook additions over time may end up being a game changer.
Thoughts?
|
|
The Sorcerer'sArchetype Chart near the bottom shows you which features are altered. Everything about the Bloodlines is altered for Crossblooded.
The Magus usually gets a lot more confusing (though not as bad as grappling) for groups during combat. Just make sure you read up the FAQ for Ultimate Magic and spend some time really getting familiar with your build.
Skirnir says directly that you do not suffer arcane failure, even with tower shields, at level 1.
I'm not sure why you'd want to be a Skirnir, though, since you lose pretty much everything that makes a Magus powerful. Especially the action economy which allows you to cast spells and fight in the same round while buffing yourself with swift actions as the situation demands. Magus also makes excellent use of the Dimensional movement feats later on. With a dip into Evocation specialization as a Wizard you can trade one type of energy for another to avoid resistance and immunity or take advantage of weakness.
The Sorcerer'sArchetype Chart near the bottom shows you which features are altered. Everything about the Bloodlines is altered for Crossblooded.
The Magus usually gets a lot more confusing (though not as bad as grappling) for groups during combat. Just make sure you read up the FAQ for Ultimate Magic and spend some time really getting familiar with your build.
Skirnir says directly that you do not suffer arcane failure, even with tower shields, at level 1.
I'm not sure why you'd want to be a Skirnir, though, since you lose pretty much everything that makes a Magus powerful. Especially the action economy which allows you to cast spells and fight in the same round while buffing yourself with swift actions as the situation demands. Magus also makes excellent use of the Dimensional movement feats later on. With a dip into Evocation specialization as a Wizard you can trade one type of energy for another to avoid resistance and immunity or take advantage of weakness.
Right, I was looking for a way to pick up a shield with no arcane penalty as a magus WITHOUT becoming a skirnir. I know I can do it with a light mithril shield but would prefer something heavier if anybody knew of a way to pull it off. I'm still looking into other archetypes of magus but many of the ones that I like lose some pretty crucial stuff.
|
|
Ah, my mistake.
You'll need Still Spell To wield a sword, a shield, and cast a spell. Skirnir loses Spell combat, so it's irrelevant for that archetype, but for the rest it should prevent failure altogether. That costs +1 spell level, so it's not viable across the board.
I'm still not sure what your goal would be to go sword&board. There are plenty of ways to tease around certain objectives. Like quick draw if you need the extra AC for a round or two, and then put back for a chance to cast again.
ACTUALLY I just thought of it and I may have a different problem. I assumed that shields kept the hand free since they're on the forearm, but now I see that the light shield is the only one that allows the off-hand to remain empty.
That being said, does the magus spell combat feat allow you to cast these spells in the shield hand with a light shield equipped? Light shields indicate that a weapon can't be used in that hand, but I'm not sure if spells count toward that.
|
|
I think what you're looking for is a buckler. It's not great, it adds a -1 penalty, specifically let's cast spells, but you can enchant it as a shield. You might also want to look into The Eldritch Knight prestige. It is basically a wizard with a sword that loses one level of spellcasting. In return you get some neat advantages but are still basically a wizard with reinforced combat potential. Improved Familiar gets you more action economy if you pick a familiar with hands to use your wands for you.