Zeoh's page

You might be right errant, but my DM and I spoke about this already and he decided for this game that "Ordinary Bloodline" basically just means anything that isn't wildblooded. Basically (for this game at least, maybe not following campaign) anything that is selected under the "Sorcerer Bloodlines from Paizo" list from the sorcerer main page is going to be affected by the arcanist exploit, as long as it is granted by a sorcerer class level. (not eldritch heritage)

Who knows, he may change his mind once I start over-complicating my ability/power selections.

I suppose I could balance it slightly by taking draconic and impossible, then only taking all of my selections from impossible. That would still leave me open for dragon disciple and the impossible bloodline would be "unaltered".

@trekkie - The gear melding into your body... does that include slotless items like ioun stones orbiting your head? Or could I activate an arcane bond ioun stone? (though it may not matter if the arcane bond require the somatic components too)

OK, so I guess it's pretty safe to assume the arcane bloodline selection, either through crossblooded or through eldritch heritage, will allow an arcane bond item to cast any arcanist spellbook spell. That works for me, and I thank you guys for the discussion.

Now I just need to figure out the logistics behind dragon combat. I'm very new to pathfinder/d&d and this is going to be my first character and campaign, so I'm basically looking up every little detail as I think of it, trying to learn as much as I can before Thursday.

So in this scenario, I SORT OF have 3 bloodlines (2 crossblooded impossible/draconic) and 1 semi-bloodline for the first power only. (Which I'm sure the bloodline development exploit won't affect)

So, if/when I do become a dragon disciple and enter dragon form, can I still cast spells as regular? How about while flying? Can I activate my arcane bond item while transformed if it's a ring, or would it need to be an arcane bound ioun stone? (assuming it continues to fly around your head while transformed) And does my armor and equip continue to give regular AC values and magical effects while transformed?

Finally, if it turns out I can't cast in dragon form, can I swap out impossible bloodline (mainly wanted it for animate objects and wondrous item crafting cheats at 3rd lvl) for psychic bloodline in order to thought-cast spells from the arcanist spellbook, or would I only be able to thought-cast any sorcerer spells I currently know?

Also, I agree with your point trekkie on the rules language for arcane bond since in the description for arcane bloodline it clearly states the difference in how the bond item works compared to a conventional arcane bond item.

@trekkie - I was thinking along the same lines, but if that's the case and all arcanist spells are considered "Known" then logically a sorcerer multiclass spell slots would be able to make use of the "known" spells. Of course, I guess you could say they're magically segregated known spells in your mind for the purpose of game balance.

@DonDuckie - If you can't take a sorcerer as multiclass Arcanist then that kinda defeats the purpose of the bloodline development arcanist exploit.

Also, I looked for that part about the Wizard wording on spells and didn't see it. I'll look again.

Edit- Ah, donduckie is right about the wizard class including the same "any number of spells known" thing. just looked it up. Even still, I don't see why it wouldn't work the same way in either case since the arcanist uses both practices.

OK so, I'm making this character and came across this possible feat option. Here it goes:

My arcanist is being built with 1 level in crossblooded sorcerer as arcane/impossible bloodline with bloodline development arcane exploit. Then I got to reading about dragon disciples and thought about changing arcane over to dragon bloodline. Simple enough.

If I do this however, and decided to use a feat to obtain Eldritch Heritage as arcane bloodline, how does the arcane bond item work? Here are my thoughts:

"Arcane Bloodline
Arcane Bond (Su): At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object. Once per day, your bonded item allows you to cast any one of your spells known (unlike a wizard’s bonded item, which allows him to cast any one spell in his spellbook). This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item."

Now, I know that Arcanists Prepare spells like a wizard but use spell slots like a sorcerer. That being said, in the main page for arcanist in the Spell Casting section it says:

"An arcanist can only cast a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Arcanist under “Spells per Day.” In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Intelligence score.
An arcanist may know any number of spells, but the number she can prepare each day is limited. At 1st level, she can prepare four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells each day. At each new arcanist level, the number of spells she can prepare each day increases, adding new spell levels as indicated on Table: Arcanist Spells Prepared."

So, does this mean that my arcane bond item will cast any arcanist spell I have, including bloodline power spells granted from my crossblooded sorcerer bloodlines being boosted by my arcanist levels through bloodline development?

Yeah... lengthy question. Curious about the answer though. Playing a dragon disciple with all these other capabilities has caught my interest.

ACTUALLY I just thought of it and I may have a different problem. I assumed that shields kept the hand free since they're on the forearm, but now I see that the light shield is the only one that allows the off-hand to remain empty.

That being said, does the magus spell combat feat allow you to cast these spells in the shield hand with a light shield equipped? Light shields indicate that a weapon can't be used in that hand, but I'm not sure if spells count toward that.

The Sorcerer'sArchetype Chart near the bottom shows you which features are altered. Everything about the Bloodlines is altered for Crossblooded.

The Magus usually gets a lot more confusing (though not as bad as grappling) for groups during combat. Just make sure you read up the FAQ for Ultimate Magic and spend some time really getting familiar with your build.

Skirnir says directly that you do not suffer arcane failure, even with tower shields, at level 1.

I'm not sure why you'd want to be a Skirnir, though, since you lose pretty much everything that makes a Magus powerful. Especially the action economy which allows you to cast spells and fight in the same round while buffing yourself with swift actions as the situation demands. Magus also makes excellent use of the Dimensional movement feats later on. With a dip into Evocation specialization as a Wizard you can trade one type of energy for another to avoid resistance and immunity or take advantage of weakness.

Right, I was looking for a way to pick up a shield with no arcane penalty as a magus WITHOUT becoming a skirnir. I know I can do it with a light mithril shield but would prefer something heavier if anybody knew of a way to pull it off. I'm still looking into other archetypes of magus but many of the ones that I like lose some pretty crucial stuff.

One quick question for you guys though.

Just in case I do decide to make a magus instead to avoid all of these complications, can anybody think of a good way to use a shield as a magus without becoming a skirnir and losing knowledge pool? I'd like to avoid the arcane failure chance while using something better than a light mithril shield. (Towers would be amazing, but heavy would work)

I ask because, if I'm reading it correctly, I can learn a brand new spell each day of my choosing and scribe it directly into my magus spellbook. This seemed very powerful to me since my DM's setting involves a very very scarce percentage of the population being magic users (I believe he said something like 1/1000 being arcane or divine caster, and even then they may not know it or may not show it around others) so the ability to generate my own permanent spellbook additions over time may end up being a game changer.

Thoughts?

@Zeoh Yes I read the bottom half of the feat, too. That doesn't change the very first line of the exploit. As written you select one. If your character has access to one (or more) then you get to use your levels to advance that (single) bloodline you chose.

I thought the italicized instead basically meant to ignore everything before that line if you already had a bloodline(s) provided from another class?

And since both bloodlines are standard, not altered bloodlines from a different archetype (although I suppose you could argue they're being altered by crossblooded since you choose between each ability and power, but I thought it more referred to substituted archetype versions of bloodlines that change the powers all together) then the line:
"The arcanist must select an ordinary bloodline with this ability, not one altered by an archetype."
shouldn't really be an issue (or so i thought!)

I'll have to talk to him more about it. Last time we spoke though we both agreed that since both bloodlines are on the main sorcerer page and not third-party, they'd both be eligible to fall under the rules of the last sentence on the exploit.

Looking over Bloodline Development it would appear there are some misunderstandings. Maybe I didn't correctly read your process, but....

Bloodline Development wrote:

The arcanist selects one sorcerer bloodline upon taking this exploit.

[edited out something incorrect caused by a failure to read carefully]

Bloodline Development

The arcanist selects one sorcerer bloodline upon taking this exploit. The arcanist gains that bloodline's 1st-level bloodline power as though she were a 1st-level sorcerer. The arcanist must select an ordinary bloodline with this ability, not one altered by an archetype. As a swift action, the arcanist can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to bolster her latent nature, allowing her to treat her arcanist level as her sorcerer level for the purpose of using this ability, which lasts for a number of rounds equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1). She does not gain any other abilities when using this exploit in this way, such as bloodline arcana or those bloodline powers gained at 3rd level or higher. If this ability is used to gain an arcane bond and a bonded item is selected, the arcanist can only use that item to cast spells of a level equal to the level of spell that could be cast by her equivalent sorcerer level (limiting her to 1st level spells unless she spends a point from her arcane reservoir). If the arcanist already has a bloodline (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted her access to the bloodline when determining the powers and abilities of her bloodline.

My lvl 1 sorcerer point drop is for a crossblooded sorcerer archetype.

Hi oddman, thanks for the reply.

Yeah the gold crafting cost thing was probably mostly a misinterpretation on both of our parts, since he hadn't really dealt much with crafting in his previous campaigns. Apparently nobody took interest in it. As for the party wealth guidelines, he said he'd reward good RP, and I planned on opening a superstore to sell my crafted items as a merchant would. Possibly decked out with golem workers and everything.

For your point about the ioun stones... I misspoke about the bonuses in question. I was referring to the +2 enhancement stones that can stack 3 times for a +6, as well as the infinitely stacking temporary HP stones
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun- stones/emerald-ellipsoid-ioun-stone

I'm wondering if it's all worth bothering with though. Maybe he'd prefer me to just play a magus. I've also considered a variation of the arcanist that isn't focused on crafting, but substitutes one of his bloodlines for a psychic bloodline so that I can wear heavy armor and shield without an arcane casting penalty. I'd probably need to point drop for proficiency though so it may be better to just go skirnir.

Hey Rub-Eta, thanks for the welcome!

Your point about the extra arcanist exploit might be valid, but since it worked in PCgen I think he was ok with it. The bloodline development feat, on the other hand, has wording at the end of the ability that indicates how it would affect any bloodline that your sorcerer class level possesses, instead of actually needing to choose a bloodline for your arcanist levels to boost.

As for the craft construct feat, I intend to pick it up ASAP. I'm starting as a human with the extra exploit and the magical aptitude feat, just because I thought any permanent construct could probably wait til my next feat point.

As for his house rules, I'll talk to him but I'm not going to make a huge fuss over it. The interpretation for the gold cost was a bit fuzzy on the crafting rules page, and seemed like it allowed for virtually any requirement other than feats to be substituted for +5DC. I think he also said I'd need a base version of the item to craft (or possibly materials) in addition to the gold cost if applicable. We'll see how it goes. Your point about the time required to craft, however, was mostly a non-issue in his eyes because he said the party could just wait around for a few days (or during downtime) in order to instantly acquire these crazy items.

I know he's a bit of a D&D veteran but I think you're right that he hasn't DM'd many times in the past. Since I'm the brand new player, I'm not going to push the issue with him. I'm just wondering if I should choose a different character path rather than put up with such limitations.

Hello, new to D&D/PF here. I'm in the process of making my first character for my first campaign ever, and could use a little advice.

I decided I wanted to play a crafting character, and decided to start off as a White Mage archetype Arcanist. After that, I would drop 1 level into a crossblooded sorcerer with the impossible and arcane bloodlines. In this way, I would take the extra arcanist exploit feat at level 1 (Since white mages give up their lvl 1 arcanist exploit for cure spells) and select the bloodline development exploit.

In this way I should be able to add my arcanist level to my sorcerer level when determining bloodline powers and abilities (Which my DM and I interpret as powers and spells) and means that I will have access to spells such as animate objects that normally I would need a divine caster for. Most spells from these bloodlines I can scribe into my arcanist book in order to cast, while others may require the use of my arcane bond item from the arcane bloodline to cast (since my sorcerer level will be level 1, but the arcane bond item power is based on arcanist+sorcerer levels via the description!)

All of this means that I should be able to craft permanent animated constructs, golems, and other wondrous items at very low levels due to the spontaneous generation power of the impossible bloodline at lvl 3 (granting the craft wondrous item feat and the ability to ignore a spell requirement on a crafted item at lvl 3). On top of that, I boosted my effective spellcraft level to 11 at level 1 thorugh traits, class and attribute bonuses, since I discovered that spellcraft could be used as the crafting check for magical and wondrous items instead of the associated crafting skill.

After hearing my plans during our 1 on 1 character discussion pre-campaign (he's doing it with everyone but we're good friends anyhow so we've discussed it at length), however, the DM decided to implement a couple of "house rules" in order to keep the game fun for everyone. His changes were:

-wondrous items require a blueprint to craft (through research or other means)
-the crafting rule for ignoring a crafting requirement (other than feats) in order to take a +5 DC on the crafting check cannot be used on the gold cost, and when used on the spell requirement (not counting spontaneous generation's spell ignoring ability) it will increase the DC check by 3x the spell level ignored
-spontaneous generation power of the impossible bloodline, when used to ignore a spell requirement, will impose a +2 DC to the crafting check instead of 0
-I'm not allowed to take traits such as inspired or tireless logic, among others.
-certain wondrous items may be limited/changed (i'm guessing he means things like the infinitely stacking +int enhancement ioun stones or the wish-crafted stat enhancement books, but i'm not sure)

His reason for these changes is that the game will be mostly made up of people like myself that are playing PF/D&D for the first time ever, but that they're not "Meta Gaming" as hard as I am, and that early game wondrous items will simply be game-breaking compared to my fellow players' capabilities. I understood that and didn't argue, but now I'm wondering if I should even bother with my crafting character that I wanted to play, or just roll a magus or something.

I did have an idea in mind for a skirnir-magus that could be interesting, but I really had my heart set on role-playing the "arcane artisan" of sorts. I don't want my endeavors to be fruitless though. Any advice would be helpful.