From the point of view of someone that likes playing Rogues, that this doesn't make Rogue better at their nitch.This is demonstrably false.
They end up 4d6 behind in sneak attack by level 19, not a big hit. With Precise Strike and Accomplished Sneak Attacker, for earlier levels you end up ahead of the game, or equal to it.
What a joke that notion is.
So your solution to a notably barren class when using feat equivalence system of measurement is to assume the one that is behind in resources is expending more resources to get ahead? Ooooookay.
So your solution to a notably barren class when using feat equivalence system of measurement is to assume the one that is behind in resources is expending more resources to get ahead? Ooooookay.From the point of view of someone that likes playing Rogues, that this doesn't make Rogue better at their nitch.This is demonstrably false.
They end up 4d6 behind in sneak attack by level 19, not a big hit. With Precise Strike and Accomplished Sneak Attacker, for earlier levels you end up ahead of the game, or equal to it.
What a joke that notion is.
Was that a response to me, or that empty headed scarecrow behind me?
The class is competent on its own thanks to it's fine spell list and decent amount of spells per day.
PFS is irrelevant to RAW, and RAW says you can take the Unchained Rogue with this. The spells gained more than make up for dumping your feats into several decent tricks.
Hey folks, please take the combative rhetoric here down a notch. I'm also not convinced that a back and forth about classes/mechanics belongs in the Advice subforum.
Honestly I haven't talked to someone who thinks it is worth playing yet.
Well you found one [unchained of course]. I'm playing one now. So far I have no complaints. It's an arcane class with actual skills, dex based melee and ninja talents. Add in magus variant multiclassing for an arcane pool plus ki arcana and you have more ki than most ninja's have and you can still power your ninja talents with spells.
It may have less raw power than a pure arcane caster but you can't beat the versatility readied spells, a competent skill base and ninja talents gives you.
I'd take it with Unchained Rogue in a heartbeat because I like the concept, but if I had to use Core Rogue I'd pass. Core Rogue just doesn't have the class features to function well with casting if it gives up half. You'd be better off playing an Arcane Trickster at that point because their spells are better and neither of you will go into melee with your accuracy issues anyway.
If I was building this, I'd try to get feats for Archery and use that or offensive spells depending on the enemy. Before Level 11 I'd use spells like Scorching Ray and rely on swift-action Invisibility from ninja tricks to deal damage and debuff. At 11 I'd take Invisible Blade through Extra Rogue Talent: Master Trick and start using archery more often. Round 1 cast Fiery Shuriken and swift for Greater Invisibility (which costs a 1st-level spell slot, not a 4th), getting one shuriken attack. Then, on round 2, Swift for the shuriken and Debilitating Injury (-6 to AC) then full-attack with the bow (3-4 attacks depending on if someone has Haste or not). Since the shuriken is a ranged touch attack you'll probably hit 95% of the time, making it easier to land your full attack. Plus 1 Dex damage per hit to decrease AC even more. You're looking at 4d8+12d6+16 or so (+2 Weapon and +2 Strength per arrow, maybe +16 more if you think Deadly Aim is worth it), plus 4-5 Dexterity damage per round for 5 rounds, and that costs a 1st and 2nd-level spell. Pretty neat trick.
With the Unchained Rogue's dex-to-damage mechanics and spellcasting, it has a considerable amount of combat potential. Having 1.5xDEX and Power Attack on a two-handed finesse weapon with Heroism and other Wizard buffs is nothing to scoff at even if it's at 3/4BAB.
Kinda too bad that they got rid of the improved mage armor spells. I imagine they would be great for this kind of class.
Stacking some long duration buffs is definitely going to do more for you than the rogue class features you lose.