| RaizielDragon |
Just watched Little Witch Academia: Enchanted Parade and was inspired to build a spellcaster that combines spellcasting and technology, especially in the sense of casting spells through a firearm.
Some quick researching showed me that the Spellslinger archetype of Wizard or the Eldritch Archer archetype of the Magus may be what I'm looking for, but I'm definitely open to ideas.
Basically, I'm looking for a build that utilizes some combination of magic and a firearm and can either "spray" an area (things like cones, bursts, blasts, lines, etc would be fine for this), or, if possible, focus fire on one target, making lots of "attacks" (doesn't have to be actual attack rolls involved; something like multiple bolts from Magic Missle going at the same target would work).
A crossbow would be an acceptable alternative to a firearm.
The problem I'm seeing is that there doesn't seem to be a "rapid fire" firearm option; probably for good reason. There are builds for things like a Ninja throwing lots of shuriken, and making lots of individual attacks for small amounts of damage that can add up. I'm looking for something like that except using a ballistic weapon in combination with magic.
Outside of Spellslinger and Eldritch Archer, if there is a class that is something like an Artificer, that is focused more around gadgets and technology, that would be perfect, but not sure if something like that exists (at least not that could also support the attack style described above).
Anyway, I'll be researching a bit on my own some more as well, but whenever I start a build I like to also make a post to get ideas from the community, since it's really easy for me to miss things or attempt a build that's beyond the scope of possibility in Pathfinder. Anyway, thanks in advance for any input.
| thewastedwalrus |
Actually, there are some "Modern Firearms" that have an automatic quality and some earlier ones have the "scatter" quality that would work as spray like areas(Modern firearms are listed for a world where guns are everywhere and thusly are listed at 1/10th their standard cost, if you can even buy them at all.)
Imbicatus
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A crossbow would be an acceptable alternative to a firearm.
Combine a Mage's Crossbow with multi-touch range spells. Scorching Ray, Fiery Shuriken, and so on.
| RaizielDragon |
Both are awesome suggestions, thank you :)
I'll have to look into whether or not I can use a modern firearm. One of the campaigns I'm in (that I'm heavily considering a new character for) has a fairly lenient GM, and it's also a gestalt campaign, which would likely make the build easier.
Those are the kinds of spells I'm looking for. One question I had about them is this: is there a metamagic way to increase how many rays/bolts/shuriken/attacks/etc. can be made with such spells? I know there are ways of increasing "variable" effect limits based off of level, but that only applies to upper limits on dice (like with Fireball) as far as I know. I'm looking for ways to use higher level spells to get more "shots" essentially. If not, I can always reflavor area effects as spraying the area with lots of shots.
That crossbow looks neat and I feel could just as easily be a magical firearm with the same effect. It's effects are somewhat reproduced by the Spellslinger archetype, though, but at the same time, I likely wouldn't have any other type of enchantment in mind (except maybe Endless Ammunition if I end up going with a crossbow).
| LoneKnave |
If you want to rapid fire, you can use rapid reload for the mage's crossbow, or rapid reload+alchemical cartridges for whatever pistol you go with.
Mage's crossbow actually looks pretty good with Eldritch archer magus. The reason you'd take a dip in spellslinger wizard instead would be if you wanted the x3 crit on your spells. You can combine this with Named Bullet for guaranteed triple'd up disintegrate, if you like throwing 120d6 damage, but that's a high level strat.
Another class to look at would be the Heaven's Oracle, possibly with the blackened curse. In this case, I'd recommend dipping the spellslinger, as you'd want to buff your Colorspray, and the crossbow only works on ray spells.
| Zwordsman |
Look at
machinesmith
maybe
artficer via adamant entertainment
Machiensmith has a buff for specific weapons. Lets you pump it up etc.
Artificer in theory you could combine all the items into one with a single activation item. and its so fluffy on what it looks like that if your GM is nice. you could fluff it up.
Could have a normal firearm (rifle shotgun whatever) and then if your gm lets you, you could fluff the activation items as say.. attachments for the weapons.
an underweapon attachment could be several stacks of Magic Missle (my favorite I had bangles (one ring for eachstacked item) basically allowing me to shoot 5 magic missle spells at once at a target (this is high level mind you) a few times a day.
can do the same with say.. burning ray. The more you put into a single activation the less uses per day you actually have.
It was never overly powerful when I used it.. but I usually used it for the amusing ideas.
MM Bangles, (nonlethal force version of scorching ray)gloves, a pendant that had several differen't buffs for one activation.
had so little uses per day though that I was less of a caster and more of a 3/4 martial with "boom" here and there.
it also has a lot of crafting to it.
Machine smith is also an item heavy looking class.
Honestly if iw as gesulting I'd be terribly tempted to do both of those, and have some really neat Gear based character.
| Chad Rechkemmer |
We have a person in our local group that is playing a wizard who almost exclusively uses magic missle for spells, augmented with metamagics. He uses a firearm for his arcane bond, but not actually for attacks. It gives the illusion of using "Pappy's Boom Stick" to fire out a barrage of missiles. I believe he also took dispel magic, for the express purpose of countering shield spells.
| RaizielDragon |
No, I wouldn't waste a level dip just to get x3 crit on spells. Not interested in having that much burst damage.
I'm definitely thinking Eldritch Archer is the way to go for class so far. Also considering some levels of Eldritch Knight for some extra feats and BAB. Thoughts on that? It only nets me +2 BAB, but that's enough for a 4th attack, which is tempting, especially if I go with a firearm, allowing for them to be touch attacks (makes up for lack of accuracy bonuses I'd have). The extra feats would be welcome since I'm probably going to be low on feats, wanting both ranged feats and some metamagic ones (since Metamagic is the best way to make a blaster caster viable).
I'm also considering Magic Missile being my go-to spell, though this would only be if I can get access to the 3.5 prestige class that specialized in it (can't recall the name right this second).
| Diven |
Also in the Iron Kingdoms RPG (Not Pathfinder, but still d20/D&D3.5 compatible) there is exactly what you are looking for. I forget the name of the class at the moment as it has been a few years since I last opened that book, but it is a caster that channels his spells through a glowing rune-carved pistol or musket.
| RaizielDragon |
With the Artificer, what is the limit on how many spells you can put on one device? Are the numbers listed on the class chart the number of spell effects they can have active in inventions at one time, or the number of inventions? If the latter, what is the limit on how many spells they can have per invention?
I ask because, it looks almost like they can put as many spell effects as they want into one device, with the only limitation being that if they try to exceed the number of uses per day, it will get to the point that it's an auto-fail. For example, at level 1, I could make a Magic Missile gun that casts Magic Missile 5000 times that would function reliably 2 times a day, then have a DC 5025 check to use after that. But still, I would be reliably casting 5000 magic missiles as a single standard action, twice per day. I'm assuming the number one under the 1 column means I can only have a single level 1 spell effect in my one invention.
Even if it works as I'm assuming it does (NOT 5000-magic-missile-super-totally-broken) it's kind of alluring because at higher levels I could still pack multiple magic missiles into one invention to get the large quantity of shots I would be looking for out of one action. Basically the class can trade in "spells per day" to increase action economy; letting you get multiple spell effects off with one standard action, but reducing the number of times per day you can do so. At level 4, for example, I have a total of 4 spell effects to work with, so I could make a device that casts Magic Missile 4 times with a single standard action, but would only do so, reliably, 3 times per day. Or, I could have 4 devices that each can cast Magic Missile once, but each can do so, reliably, 3 times per day, for a total of 12 reliable casts. Or somewhere in between. The possible combinations of # of devices with # of spells in each device goes up as you level up. Basically, I get to decide how many clips I have (per day), how many bullets are in each clip, and how many bullets are fired per trigger pull; with lower concentration of fire being able to be better sustained throughout the day. Definitely something I will keep in mind, as, again, I like the high volume of shots I can get off with one trigger pull.
Machinesmith looks like a typical spellcaster for the most part. The Great Works ability looks interesting, especially Mobius Weapon; it looked a little underwhelming at first but then I saw the Tricks and that made it seem more palatable. All-in-all, I'd say it's comparable to an Eldritch Archer and their Arcanas, though I don't think a Machinesmith can use metamagic. Plus, Magus has more support, and being official makes it more likely to be usable. I think I'd take Magus over this (though a Magus|Machinesmith, with their weapon being both a Mobius Weapon and their bonded weapon could be pretty cool).
If I do end up going gestalt, I'd probably use go with Magus|Artificer; Magus would give me consistent damage, and Artificer could give me some high burst damage a few times a day with a heavily loaded invnetion.
| RaizielDragon |
Yep, I've played Iron Kingdoms (and WarmaHordes). Those are the Arcane Tempest Gun Mages. They are definitely one of my favorite model/unit/class, flavor-wise. That/those game(s) definitely have much more of a steampunk flavor (which they should since it's branded as steampunk fantasy) than Pathfinder.
I apologize if my original post mentioning "technology" made it seem like I was looking for something steampunk-ish; I'm not, necessarily. Though a steampunk flavored character is not unwelcome, I'm definitely looking more for something arcane based; I don't think the high-technology aspect of the character I'd like to include is possible in this setting; the inspiration for the character is set in the age of computers, cell phones, modern firearms, etc., so I can't see fitting all of that in. At best, I can see making a normal firearm act like a modern firearm via spells channeled through it.
| LoneKnave |
No, I wouldn't waste a level dip just to get x3 crit on spells. Not interested in having that much burst damage.
I'm definitely thinking Eldritch Archer is the way to go for class so far. Also considering some levels of Eldritch Knight for some extra feats and BAB. Thoughts on that? It only nets me +2 BAB, but that's enough for a 4th attack, which is tempting, especially if I go with a firearm, allowing for them to be touch attacks (makes up for lack of accuracy bonuses I'd have). The extra feats would be welcome since I'm probably going to be low on feats, wanting both ranged feats and some metamagic ones (since Metamagic is the best way to make a blaster caster viable).
I'm also considering Magic Missile being my go-to spell, though this would only be if I can get access to the 3.5 prestige class that specialized in it (can't recall the name right this second).
Spellslinger nets you a few extra stuffs: It gets you proficiency with firearms (tho, I think being a bonded weapon probably means you don't need that for eldritch archer, if "the wizard is always proficient in his bonded weapon" thing is in effect), gets you Gunsmith (need it for guns/bullets), gets you Mage Bullets, which can bestow Spell storing(!!!) among other stuff, lets you use wizard spell trigger items, and bonded weapons buff AoE spells, not just ones that require damage rolls.
As for EK: I think arcanas outweigh the extra attack in usefulness, and then you got high level stuff, like improved spell recall (which is about when you'd get your last attack IIRC).
| Zwordsman |
.....
Artificer info stuffs. As I understand it (I did a lot of research and talking about a year and a half ago? ish. for a game. its probably still findable on the forums)
Takes 4 hours per spell level to creat; Per item that is in it.They can use any one device 1+1/2level. They do not use UMD to use it (unless trying to use more than allowed per day). But anyone else can use it using the UMD roll, but failing has consequences.
arcane or divine or both I think.
They are just items, they don't take up magic item slots etc. But if it isn't within reasonable reach its not unreasonable to make you have to draw them. One reason I favored Bangles, gloves, pendants, neck bands, etc.
They are magic items though.
be sure to have normal battle ability *(which you would as a gesult) can make some cool designs honestly. I always wanted to play an android race and have them as sorta stick on tattoo/marking sorta stuff (Ever read Blazer manga?) shoot several battering blasts out of an arm blaster, or scortching rays from my eyes etc.
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lets take level 10 for ease.
they have science inventions: level 1 (4) Level 2 (3) Level 3 (3)
1+5=6 uses per day per invention.
So that means they could either build 10 different items, all of which do one spell. so. 10 different "items" each "item" has 6 uses a day
Or they could combine them how they like. Say 4 instances of Magic Missle in one device (my bangle example). For one activation (Standard action I think) it would use all 4 magic missle spells, for one activation cost. Meaning I'd have 5/6 uses per day left on that specific item.
This would take 4x4=16 hours to make this one item though. with DC 25+4=29 with regards to the UMD rolls (until you do it a few times)
So in this example I would still have my level 2 and 3's available to make into something. EIther all into one, or into individual things.
Then lets say I make one item.. I'll just call it a battlizer. (Power rangers so sue me) It has
Level 2 spells: Blur, False Life (both arcane) and Weapon of Awe (divine)
level 3:Magic Vestment
All these spells would activate when I used it, and I have 6 uses a day.
To create this it would take 4hrs per spell level so 8 hours per level 2 spell and 12 hours per level 3. A total of 36 hours to finish this item crafting.
That would level 2 level 3 inventions available.
I could say double up on a vampiric touch, so when i use it and touch someone they get hit with both (well I still have to roll each attack of course).
or if I was the healer. I could make a double cure moderate wounds. So when used it would double up on the healing.
or I could make two seperate items, one vampiric touch and one healing.
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Nothing in this says you couldn't metamagic I think, as long as you stay under the spell levels you have access to. You even get to chose metamagic after all as free feats. Granted that could be for using on wands and such.
Ask your GM. I really don't think its unreasonable at all.
but assuming you were allowed. you could take that same level 10 character and say "screw the details"
and make one item that is nothing but 10 versions of magic missle, 4 base ones, 3 level 2 metamagiced ones, and 3 level 3 metamagic ones.
or make different' versions as needed. a lesser version with all 4 base.
then a supped up tripping version, and then a dazing version and only have 3 items instead.
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NOW A NOTE for you and your GM it never specifies if the item's ability is set when you make it, or if it levels up with you. I would ask it to level up with you if possible. Since it takes forever to make stuff.
Granted one shield knocks down magic missles so careful on that. Unless you get to use Force Missle Mage prestige class ,and it combos into it.
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as a gesult machine gun like mage. I'd honestly consider 5 levels in Siege Gunner then magus. Dex to the gun, a lot of nice little skills, INT to grit, and the "scatter" can be fluffed as machine gunning, with the focused damage being the "main" target of the spray and pray. Then magus from then on if you wanted Magus the most.
granted it just depends on how much you value dex to shooting and the lil extras. Might not be worth it