
alkatrazshock |
A PC of mine has made a witch, and to confidently help out, I kind of have to know stuff about the itch, I read through the advanced player's guide part on the witch, but I kinda ended up confused some from where I have little to no experience with familiars, technically my only experience with familiars would be 2 previous PCs being druid, and of course it seems animal companions definitely aren't familiars, but they are the closest thing I worked with, and I didn't fully understand it all back then either, so I shall ask questions that came up while reading through stuff
1. I noticed that it acted like the witch's familiar is different from a wizard's, but the only difference I really spotted was that the familiar kinda acts like the spellbook for a witch, I don't remember anything right off that was very game changing other than that, did I miss something?
2. I assume with the detail in a familiar, one would want to make a character sheet for the familiar?
3. extended from the character sheet part, I didn't notice anything really about levels for a familiar, like I see the chart that shows the abilities they gain, and there is the part about their HP being the witch's HP halved, but I see nothing about them ever getting stronger so to speak, no ability score increases or feats, so did I miss something or do they basically only get abilities added and HP boosted as you level?
4. Noticed a feat for familiars called improved familiars, but then upon looking into that, I failed to notice any bonuses that those familiar's provided, like the +3 on stealth that the cat gives, I saw no bonuses like that provided from things like the psudodragon (likely spelled wrong) and such, so something I missed there? if not, then is the only point to the feat, to get a different familiar for flavor or are they definitely stronger so to speak?
I suppose that is basically all my questions unless anyone wants to point out things that also get overlooked that I may not have even realized I overlooked

UnArcaneElection |

A PC of mine has made a witch, and to confidently help out, I kind of have to know stuff about the itch,
I have found that capsaicin cream works surprisingly well for this, better than any of the steroid-based creams.
{. . .}
1. I noticed that it acted like the witch's familiar is different from a wizard's, but the only difference I really spotted was that the familiar kinda acts like the spellbook for a witch, I don't remember anything right off that was very game changing other than that, did I miss something?
This is most of the difference, although it's a pretty big difference, since if you make full use of a Familiar, it is much more in harm's way than a Wizard's spellbook -- this is to some extent true even when it is sitting on your shoulder acting as a UMD Monkey. Note that Familiar archetypes are available to a Witch's Familiar as well as for a Wizard's Familiar, but certain ones such as the Mauler, although technically legal, are much less recommended for the same reason. Also note that some Witch archetypes replace the Familiar with some type of Bonded Object that usually DOESN'T follow the same rules as a Wizard's Bonded Object(*), and the Ley Line Guardian archetype of Witch is a spontaneous caster (unfortunately still Intelligence-based, if you were thinking of using a race that has an Intelligence penalty), and thus has neither a Familiar nor a Bonded Object.
(*)In most cases doesn't have the pseudo-Spell Recall ability that a Wizard's Bonded Object has, but in most cases gives you some alternative way of delivering touch spells, that usually doesn't involve putting your Bonded Object at particular risk, although watch out for severe danger of user error with the Spell Deck of a Cartomancer Witch that is exactly 2nd level (at 1st level you don't have the Deadly Dealer ability that would tempt you into this error, and at 3rd level your Spell Deck becomes immune).
2. I assume with the detail in a familiar, one would want to make a character sheet for the familiar?
My inclination would be to do so, but a lot of people instead make the Familiar's character sheet an addendum to their primary character sheet. (Then again, I have, at 1st level, managed to make a primary character sheet so long that the Paizo messageboards required me to split it into 2 parts, for a character that doesn't have and will never have any kind of class feature companion.)
3. extended from the character sheet part, I didn't notice anything really about levels for a familiar, like I see the chart that shows the abilities they gain, and there is the part about their HP being the witch's HP halved, but I see nothing about them ever getting stronger so to speak, no ability score increases or feats, so did I miss something or do they basically only get abilities added and HP boosted as you level?
This is almost correct, but look at the Familiar table for both Witch and Wizard, and you will see that Intelligence increases with level (unless you have a Familiar with the Mauler archetype, which as noted above, is not recommended for a Witch, even though it is techically legal and would be thematically really cool).
4. Noticed a feat for familiars called improved familiars, but then upon looking into that, I failed to notice any bonuses that those familiar's provided, like the +3 on stealth that the cat gives, I saw no bonuses like that provided from things like the psudodragon (likely spelled wrong) and such, so something I missed there? if not, then is the only point to the feat, to get a different familiar for flavor or are they definitely stronger so to speak?
You have to look up the individual Improved Familiars (unless they are templated versions of normal Familiars, in which case they continue to give the normal benefits). Improved Familiars (other than templated versions of normal Familiars) are enough more powerful that if you select a good one (a few trap options exist, and some that would be good for a Wizard are bad for a Witch), the benefits generally outweigh the lack of whatever bonus the normal Familiar was providing. In particular, many Improved Familiars have better survivability and better ability to Use Magic Device (many normal Familiars can't do this at all, due to lack of hands or other prehensile appendages).
I suppose that is basically all my questions unless anyone wants to point out things that also get overlooked that I may not have even realized I overlooked
Just remember that losing your Familiar as a Witch is like losing your Spellbook as a Wizard, and while ways exist to back up your Familiar, they are a lot harder than backing up a spellbook. The same holds true for Bonded Objects of Witch archetypes that replace Familiar (except Ley Line Guardian, which doesn't have either one), but Bonded Objects other are less likely to be in harm's way (to some extent not so true for a Mask, Staff, Wand, or Weapon), and thus will generally be okay unless you get roasted hard by an area of effect attack capable of damaging objects (which might also endanger a Wizard's spellbook).
A few archetypes of things other than Witch use a Witch-style Familiar: A Shaman's Spirit Animal (unless an archetype replaces it) is sort of similar, but you don't have to worry about backup, just replacement (because of divine spell preparation and casting with no true spellbook equivalent unless added back in by an archetype); a Spirit Whisperer Wizard has a Witch-style Familiar (replaces spellbook), and Unlettered Arcanist has a Witch-style Familiar (replaces spellbook) and even gets the Witch spell list instead of the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list (but no Witch Patron or Hexes).

alkatrazshock |
alkatrazshock wrote:A PC of mine has made a witch, and to confidently help out, I kind of have to know stuff about the itch,I have found that capsaicin cream works surprisingly well for this, better than any of the steroid-based creams.
alkatrazshock wrote:{. . .}
1. I noticed that it acted like the witch's familiar is different from a wizard's, but the only difference I really spotted was that the familiar kinda acts like the spellbook for a witch, I don't remember anything right off that was very game changing other than that, did I miss something?This is most of the difference, although it's a pretty big difference, since if you make full use of a Familiar, it is much more in harm's way than a Wizard's spellbook -- this is to some extent true even when it is sitting on your shoulder acting as a UMD Monkey. Note that Familiar archetypes are available to a Witch's Familiar as well as for a Wizard's Familiar, but certain ones such as the Mauler, although technically legal, are much less recommended for the same reason. Also note that some Witch archetypes replace the Familiar with some type of Bonded Object that usually DOESN'T follow the same rules as a Wizard's Bonded Object(*), and the Ley Line Guardian archetype of Witch is a spontaneous caster (unfortunately still Intelligence-based, if you were thinking of using a race that has an Intelligence penalty), and thus has neither a Familiar nor a Bonded Object.
(*)In most cases doesn't have the pseudo-Spell Recall ability that a Wizard's Bonded Object has, but in most cases gives you some alternative way of delivering touch spells, that usually doesn't involve putting your Bonded Object at particular risk, although watch out for severe danger of user error with the Spell Deck of a Cartomancer Witch that is exactly 2nd level (at 1st level you don't have the Deadly Dealer ability that would tempt you into this error, and at 3rd level your Spell Deck becomes immune).
alkatrazshock wrote:2. I assume with...
alright, that clears that up, I forgot 2 questions though, 1. can they buy armor for their familiar? and 2. I see if I'm reading the cat's attack correctly, its damage is 1d2-4 , which would mean it would never deal damage pretty much? what is that about?

Dave Justus |

1. can they buy armor for their familiar? and 2. I see if I'm reading the cat's attack correctly, its damage is 1d2-4 , which would mean it would never deal damage pretty much? what is that about?
There is armor available for familiars. The familiar handbook has some specifics. Since most familiars are tiny or smaller, armor has reduced effectiveness.
Minimum DamageIf penalties reduce the damage result to less than 1, a hit still deals 1 point of nonlethal damage.
So they can still have an effect. However, unless they are built for it (usually a mauler archetype) familiars unlike animal companions, are not really designed to be in the thick of combat. A more typical use for the familiar (aside from things like being a spell book and flavor) is as a spy or a scout. A cat might be able to overhear the bad guys plotting without attracting attention for example.

alkatrazshock |
alkatrazshock wrote:1. can they buy armor for their familiar? and 2. I see if I'm reading the cat's attack correctly, its damage is 1d2-4 , which would mean it would never deal damage pretty much? what is that about?There is armor available for familiars. The familiar handbook has some specifics. Since most familiars are tiny or smaller, armor has reduced effectiveness.
CRB wrote:
Minimum DamageIf penalties reduce the damage result to less than 1, a hit still deals 1 point of nonlethal damage.
So they can still have an effect. However, unless they are built for it (usually a mauler archetype) familiars unlike animal companions, are not really designed to be in the thick of combat. A more typical use for the familiar (aside from things like being a spell book and flavor) is as a spy or a scout. A cat might be able to overhear the bad guys plotting without attracting attention for example.
alright, also just got my mind blown by the skills section, I see nothing about a familiar getting any amount of skill ranks, but then the paragraph talks as though they do get skill ranks because it says in each skill that the familiar or master has ranks in, you use the higher one for the familiar, so what am I missing to understand this? the way I see it being done is basically just copying over the master's ranks to the familiar, but id like to understand what they mean when they say "normal skill ranks for an animal of that type" ...

Dave Justus |

The bestiary entry for the animal will have some skills, not very many, but it will have some. The familiar gets those skill ranks (or rather, doesn't lose them).
Indeed they don't get any more skill ranks of their own (although some familiar archetypes alter this) but, as you said, can use the ranks of their master as if they had those ranks instead. So if your witch has 5 ranks in knowledge: religion, the familiar will be able to make knowledge: religion rolls as if they had 5 ranks in the skill.

Drahliana Moonrunner |

alright, also just got my mind blown by the skills section, I see nothing about a familiar getting any amount of skill ranks, but then the paragraph talks as though they do get skill ranks because it says in each skill that the familiar or master has ranks in, you use the higher one for the familiar, so what am I missing to understand this? the way I see it being done is basically just copying over the master's ranks to the familiar, but id like to understand what they mean when they say "normal skill ranks for an animal of that type" ...
Familiars get the following and only the following for skills.
1. they get whatever skills listed for their basic Bestiary type.
2. they get whatever skill ranks their master purchases for themselves, they however use their own stat modifiers to calculate their final scores. and they do not get any class bonuses. If ranks overlap, use the higher value.

Damon Griffin |

1. I noticed that it acted like the witch's familiar is different from a wizard's, but the only difference I really spotted was that the familiar kinda acts like the spellbook for a witch, I don't remember anything right off that was very game changing other than that, did I miss something?
As others have noted, a witch who loses her familiar is in a bit of trouble. It's not only the witch's spellbook, it's an important way for her to learn new spells. Witches cannot [directly] learn spells from scrolls or from another 'caster's spellbook. If they acquire scrolls of suitable spells, they have to burn them and feel the ash to the familiar. The familiar now knows the spell, and from then on the witch can commune with it to prepare it as a daily spell.
For this reason I recommend acquiring a stone familiar as a kid of "back up drive" as soon as practical.
2. I assume with the detail in a familiar, one would want to make a character sheet for the familiar?
For a regular familiar a space on the PC's character sheet will probably do, but yeah, I'd recommend a separate sheet if the witch upgrades to an improved familiar.
3. extended from the character sheet part, I didn't notice anything really about levels for a familiar, like I see the chart that shows the abilities they gain, and there is the part about their HP being the witch's HP halved, but I see nothing about them ever getting stronger so to speak, no ability score increases or feats, so did I miss something or do they basically only get abilities added and HP boosted as you level?
By default their stats improve only as the master advances, but the PC can take feats that enhance the familiar, such as evolved familiar, which grants the familiar one 1-point evolution available to summoners' eidolons. In that way the familiar can gain a spell-like ability, a natural attack, gills, improved natural armor, resistance 5 against one energy type, a +8 racial bonus to one skill, etc.
4. Noticed a feat for familiars called improved familiars, but then upon looking into that, I failed to notice any bonuses that those familiar's provided, like the +3 on stealth that the cat gives, I saw no bonuses like that provided from things like the psudodragon (likely spelled wrong) and such, so something I missed there? if not, then is the only point to the feat, to get a different familiar for flavor or are they definitely stronger so to speak?
Oh, they're definitely stronger in the sense of being far more versatile and useful. The witch I ran through Serpent's Skull began with a simple rat, which gave her +2 to her Fort saves. It had all the usual Familiar characteristics, so it could deliver touch spells, speak with its master, etc.
As soon as she could upgrade to Improved Familiar, she took a lyrakien azata instead, and added Evolved Familiar to give the lyrakien a +8 racial bonus to UMD. Now, as compensation for the loss of a +2 Fort save bonus, she had a familiar that:
* can talk to not only everyone in the party, but any creature with a language, via truespeech
* has 60' darkvision plus detect evil and detect magic always on
* has a Fly speed of 80' (perfect)
* can use wands (quite well, with CHA 20 and that +8 UMD)
* has constant freedom of movement, so can't be grappled
* has DR 5/evil; Immune electricity & petrification; Resist cold 10, resist fire 10
* can cast commune once a week as a 12th level Cleric
* can cast dancing lights at will so no PC 'caster ever need waste an action on the cantrip
* can remove the effects of exhaustion and fatigue once per day by performing a soothing song
* can cast cure light wounds once a day
There's more, but that's what we found most useful. That lyrakien was a dynamite scout/front guard, and armed with a wand of cure moderate wounds she could zip around the battlefield keeping our party in the fight while allowing the clerics to remain on the offensive.

Gisher |

You have to look up the individual Improved Familiars (unless they are templated versions of normal Familiars, in which case they continue to give the normal benefits).
I don't believe that Celestial, Fiendish, etc. improved familiars deliver the same benefits as standard familiars. But if you know of rules that say otherwise, I would be very happy.

UnArcaneElection |

^While the Improved Familiar feat (and accompanying table) do not specifically say that templated Familiars keep their ability to provide the same bonuses as the corresponding normal Familiars, the templates do not remove the ability to provide these bonuses, so in the absence of reason to believe that the templates remove these abilities, the default conclusion is that templated Familiars provide the same bonuses as the corresponding normal Familiars.
* * * * * * * *
While looking for information on the above, I stumbled upon the Clockwork Familiar's possession of a Constitution score, even though it is a Construct.