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From a general cruising through the message boards I have gotten many different ideas when it comes to using the transmutation (polymorph) spell schools, especially when natural armor comes into affect. As it seemed to be an interesting topic I did a little research of my own and found some interesting things. I will be quoting directly from the core rule book via the Pathfinder Role Play Database found at http://www.d20pfsrd.com/ . If you want to look up these things yourself please do all the checking you want. Now, down to business. Under the Magic section under the Transmutation school there is the subschool Polymorph. It reads as follows. "A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, (this was a change during the reprinting of the core rule book. In the book the bonus was a +20) they do not grant you all the abilities and powers of the creature. (this is where it gets interesting) Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores (usually spelled out in the individual spell.) AND a bonus to your natural armor. IN ADDITION, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of OTHER benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants THESE benefits (referring to the previous sentence) or a greater benefit you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit." The passage goes on to talk about base speed, swimming and burrowing. From the language used in this text it clearly states that a caster receives a bonus to natural armor BEFORE applying any other bonuses. This would apply to all spells belonging to the polymorph subschool. looking up several of these spells I found an interesting thing. None of them talk about natural armor, except for the higher level beast form spells which convert the caster into a magical beast giving them a +2 natural armor bonus on top of the bonus already received. None of the other spells explicitly say that the caster doesn't get the initial bonus, and as stated in the last part of the quote "if the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit." Therefore all polymorph spells gain the natural armor of the desired animal before applying anything else. If this seems a little overpowered remember that the caster has to use up a piece of the animal to change into that animal. A caster using the "Form of the Dragon" must have a dragon scale of the type of dragon he wants to turn into. This scale is used up in the casting and cannot be used for another casting of the spell.
Erm I think the spell gives you the listed natural armour of the spell only. Or that's certainly how we play it. I may be wrong, but I think you are reading too much into the spell. IIRC the monstrous phisique spells increase natural armour as well as most that change size.
To simplify things are you saying the spells grant the base creatures natural armour and then the natural armour bonus mentioned in the spell (if one is mentioned)???
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Erm I think the spell gives you the listed natural armour of the spell only. Or that's certainly how we play it. I may be wrong, but I think you are reading too much into the spell. IIRC the monstrous phisique spells increase natural armour as well as most that change size.
To simplify things are you saying the spells grant the base creatures natural armour and then the natural armour bonus mentioned in the spell (if one is mentioned)???
Yes this is essentially what I am saying. The caster using the spell would get the natural armor bonus first, and then the one mentioned in the spell.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Not the first time this theory has been presented.
That isn't how the rules work.
"If the form grants"
It doesn't grant natural armor, at least in the spells that don't list a natural armor value, you definitely don't gain the creatures score. That was a deliberate and precise change from 3.5 way.
Ok, I don't believe that is the case. The polymorph spells were an attempt to unify the power of each polymorph hence the spell giving static bonuses. Natural armour comes in at higher level as it is normally linked to increases in size.
Nice idea but in any situation where you think a spell looks too good to be true, it probably is. A polymorph transmuted is still a lot of fun though. My magus used monstrous form a lot as well.
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According to the passage that I stated, directly from the core, each spell would grant the natural armor bonus before applying any other bonus. They each grant the natural armor unless the spell specifically says otherwise. The additions to natural armor after the fact are like the additions to an animal companion natural armor as it increases in level.
I would strongly suggest that you learn the use and the why of paragraphs.