I think I know the answer to this one already, but I was asked to pose it to the boards anyways:
Do ongoing spell effects end if the caster who created them is knocked out (less than 0 hit points) or killed?
If the spell requires his concentration, yes.
If not, no.
Not really sure where this interpretation comes from.
I've always ruled it as bigrig has, unless concentration is a req for the spell, no. So you kill an invisible, flying wizard with a fire ball of your own, you're gonna have a hard time finding the body to look, potentially. At the least you're not doing it quickly unless you have seen invisibility.
That said, I have sometimes bent that rule in leniency when they kill the caster baddie and his black tentacles are still going. I'd fluff it as he accidentally dismissed the tentacles if anyone questioned it, but I recognize the raw.
That's what I thought too, but I can't seem to find the rule written anywhere.
I think the relevant rules are in the magic section of the CRB under the duration of the spell.
A spell's duration entry tells you how long the magical energy of the spell lasts.
Timed Durations: Many durations are measured in rounds, minutes, hours, or other increments. When the time is up, the magic goes away and the spell ends. If a spell's duration is variable, the duration is rolled secretly so the caster doesn't know how long the spell will last.
So these spells last until that time elapses. There is no mention of the caster's health or state of mind. And then later...
Concentration: The spell lasts as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break your concentration while you're maintaining one, causing the spell to end. See concentration.
You can't cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Some spells last for a short time after you cease concentrating.
Thus distinguishing this sort of spell from the earlier type.
That's what I thought too, but I can't seem to find the rule written anywhere.
There isn't one. Existing rules say that spells end with X duration. There's no statement tying that duration to the caster's heartbeat.
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Here's the exception that proves the rule:
Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.
When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.
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That's what I thought too, but I can't seem to find the rule written anywhere.There isn't one. Existing rules say that spells end with X duration. There's no statement tying that duration to the caster's heartbeat.
Right, otherwise if a caster put Infernal Healing on, then was taken to negative HP, the spell would stop and the victim would have to deal with the bleed out issues.
If a caster put Mage Armor on and also took the Magic is Life trait, there would not be much good to it when taken below 0.
Worse, if a caster put Bears Endurance on and was taken below 0, big trouble as the caster could die.
I personally think it depends on the spell. As stated there isn't a clear ruling regarding the duration of the spell based on the life of the caster.
If the spell requires concentration then it should end effective immediately when the caster dies. A lot of spells do not require checks after being cast like invisibility. You can cast multiple instances of invisibility for your entire party but that doesn't mean you have to concentrate for each casting. That would make your life a living hell.
I'd rule that spells such as that (and really this depends on a GM's opinion of the spell) should remain active after the caster dies. Spells like Summon Monster, however should cease all together. You as the player command the beast you summoned and without you it will not function. Also Summon Monster is said to be used through special channels. These channels have been proven not to double for both an Eidolon and a Summon Monster creature at the same time. This would mean that there is a specific channel where the Summon Monster comes from. So I'd rule that spells like Summon Monster should stop working as it seems to be "feeding" off the caster in more ways than one.
So yeah, generally spells with concentration checks after casting should stop, ordinary spells without these checks should work and spells such as Summon Monster which requires the caster (for his commands and as a gateway of sorts) should also stop.
Of course this is all relative but just my 2 cents
Spells like Summon Monster, however should cease all together. You as the player command the beast you summoned and without you it will not function.
It's not the player who died, it's the caster.
The caster doesn't directly control the summoned creature - it attacks the caster's enemies to the best of its ability.
The eidolon / summoned monster conflict issue is for gameplay reasons - I'm pretty sure there's no established lore that the creature feeds off the caster's life force.
When the summoner dies, it's usually a sign that the party is already having a very bad time. If the GM introduces a house rule saying that their summonings fail at this point, the players will probably think the GM is going out of his way to cause a TPK.
Spells like Summon Monster, however should cease all together. You as the player command the beast you summoned and without you it will not function.It's not the player who died, it's the caster.
The caster doesn't directly control the summoned creature - it attacks the caster's enemies to the best of its ability.
The eidolon / summoned monster conflict issue is for gameplay reasons - I'm pretty sure there's no established lore that the creature feeds off the caster's life force.
When the summoner dies, it's usually a sign that the party is already having a very bad time. If the GM introduces a house rule saying that their summonings fail at this point, the players will probably think the GM is going out of his way to cause a TPK.
You are definitely splitting hairs regarding the player/caster thing. That is like saying a DM isn't a GM ^^. You got what I meant and that is what matters.
As you said, "It attacks the caster's enemies to the best of its ability". The monster will not decide on his own who is the enemy and who isn't. This requires coordination even if it is just pointing towards a target. The GM isn't the one playing the monster, you are.
Also did I ever say life force? I said feeding, that is correct but I meant his summoning power.
Drawing upon this ability uses up the same power as the summoner uses to call his eidolon.
This clearly states that there is a power that is drawn (fed) from to summon these creatures. Which also basically makes this lore but I can imagine you do not think of this as lore but as a gameplay reason though as most spells contain fluff text, this might be lore all the same.
How is the party having a bad time when the summoner dies? Do you mean that they screwed up so bad that even a summoner's summons can't save them or that the summoner is being an ass about actions? If the latter then I think that you assume too much there as not all summoners are out to annoy their party members. Also how would this result in thinking that the GM is out for a TPK? Any GM is going out for a TPK if you admit it or not. This doesn't make that any less true.
But again these are my two cents and you are not obligated to agree with me but I do however request that you read what I say a little better as you make assumptions as to what I say, which I didn't. Apologies if this sounds rude by the way :).