LinkifiedThank you, I'm not familiar with posting on the forums, even though I read them often.
In the editor there's line at the bottom that says "How to format your text" with the button "show"
Now the reason you don't see much "fighting under 0" is because you DIE so easy at that level. The highest I've seen is something like die at -34 damage. Which when you reach the level that you have that it's like 1 hit does 30 damage. at low levels it's the same, if you're under 0 you're like 1 hit away from DEAD.
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If you are looking for a undying alchemist check out the clone master archetype as well. Resurgent transformation will be a great spell to pick up when you can. They stack so that you can use both. It will hurt your bomb damage but it looks like you are going more for a control bomb build anyways. You lose immunity to poison but at that point your saves will be good enough that you should only be failing on fives or lower. You will also be able to make your friends pretty much unable to die as well when you can clone them all.
I gave you the reason why you don't see them. Also you have to get that low for anything that works under 0 to be of any use. yeah you have some things in place that maybe could keep you alive. but I'm curious how it'd actually play out.
B) I do know the what the abilities do, I went around looking to do this kind of build myself.
I haven't seen many optimized builds that utilize the "fighting while under 0 HP" Half-Orc feats
the reason you don't see much "fighting under 0" is because you DIE so easy at that level. The highest I've seen is something like die at -34 damage. Which when you reach the level that you have that it's like 1 hit does 30 damage. at low levels it's the same, if you're under 0 you're like 1 hit away from DEAD.
Stuff about your build
I gave you the reason why you don't see them. Also you have to get that low for anything that works under 0 to be of any use. yeah you have some things in place that maybe could keep you alive. but I'm curious how it'd actually play out.
So to clarify, the only things I've said about your build specifically is, "yeah you have some things in place that maybe could keep you alive. but I'm curious how it'd actually play out."
Because things on paper sometimes don't play out like we'd expect them to. Example, my friend was a GM, made this "unkillable fighter" Ursmum the undying. He died in two full attacks. first took him low, second killed him. He never got to use his <0 abilities. It wasn't as optimal as yours, but it showed that it's hard to make work.
So you've completely misunderstood my multiple attempts at me saying I wasn't addressing your build but the question you posed in your OP.
But since you feel I've been addressing your specific build, I will now (probably taking many hours) to go through your level examples to show how it maybe wouldn't play out like you're thinking it would and why people don't go this route (at least my guesses as to why).
lv1
20 Point Buy
Str: 10
Dex: 15
Con: 16
Int: 16 (14+2)
Wis: 12
Cha: 7
1: Ferocious Resolve
12 HP, 16 AC, attacks crossbow +2 1d8 as a full round. Bomb +2 1d6+3 4 per day. -16 is dead.
enemy is CR 1 monster creation table
Hit Points 15 Armor Class 12 High Attack 2 Average Damage 7
Your DPR with crosbow is 2.48
his is 2.45 against you.
boss enemy is CR 3 monster creation table
Hit Points 30 Armor Class 15 High Attack 6 Average Damage 13
Your DPR with crossbow is 1.8
his is 7.15 against you.
A boss could get a solid hit against you and get you under 0, normally you'd drop and he'd ignore you, but you're still up and a second hit could kill.
Honestly, not a bad setup for the average case on surviving. But you're not a threat and not contributing a ton in a fight. Pretty much you're ignored until the end.
EDIT: Likelyhood of ever needing to use Ferocious Resolve is low against common enemies as the fight probably wont go long enough for you to <0, and against boss it might kill you.
"The question you posed in your OP" "The reason you don't see much fighting under zero"
I never asked why you don't see fighting under zero, so when you started saying it wasn't very...
I haven't seen many optimized builds that utilize the "fighting while under 0 HP" Half-Orc feats,... Thoughts?
I gave you thoughts about why you haven't seen many optimized builds that utilize the "fighting while under 0 HP" Half-Orc feats.
the reason you don't see much "fighting under 0" is because you DIE so easy at that level. The highest I've seen is something like die at -34 damage. Which when you reach the level that you have that it's like 1 hit does 30 damage. at low levels it's the same, if you're under 0 you're like 1 hit away from DEAD.
AND
I gave you the reason why you don't see them. Also you have to get that low for anything that works under 0 to be of any use.
So if there is really is anyone who is having trouble understanding what is written it would be yourself. As you didn't specify you were wanting only comments on your build I gave my thoughts on the sentence you were asking people's thoughts about.
Also cavernshark was able to give you "thoughts" about your build specifically. And I am currently doing so.
EDIT: also a new thread isn't going to do anything different for you. At the worse it was a few comment sidetrack.
lv4
20 Point Buy
Str: 10
Dex: 16 (15+1) I'm assuming here since it makes a nice number and you didn't say.
Con: 16
Int: 18 (14+2+2headband?)
Wis: 12
Cha: 7
1: Ferocious Resolve
2: Tumor Familiar (Hedgehog for +2 Will) You should specify that this should be a Guardian Familiar from the Familiar Folio as it's basically free AC and HP if you did.
3: Extra Discovery: Tanglefoot Bomb
4: Lingering Spirit
37 HP, 17 AC, attacks crossbow +6 1d8 as a full round. Bomb +6 2d6+4 DC 18(not bad) 8 per day. -26 is dead total of 63.
enemy is CR 4 monster creation table
Hit Points 40 Armor Class 17 High Attack 8 Average Damage 16
Your DPR with crosbow is too low to matter now
DPR 8 rounds with bomb against AC 12 = 8.25
his is 9.6 against you. Lower with more buffs. He'd need to hit four or five rounds and do average or more damage to have Ferocious Resolve do anything, and Lingering spirit needs 6 or 7 to matter.
boss enemy is CR 6 monster creation table
Hit Points 70 Armor Class 19 High Attack 12 Average Damage 25
Your DPR with crosbow is too low to matter now
DPR 8 rounds with bomb against AC 12 = 8.25
his is 20 against you. Lower if you're AC gets higher than 17 like you listed.
one solid hit when you're under 0 still puts you to dead with these numbers. So again, Ferocious Resolve is more likely to get you killed than not.
EDIT: Also I'm calculating at best attack for you, not including cover or in combat which are fairly common in combats. If both apply you would boost their AC by 8 making your DPS even lower.
I haven't seen many optimized builds that utilize the "fighting while under 0 HP" Half-Orc feats, so I think this would be both interesting and fun to play. Thoughts?
I think you need to retake English because that's not what "Thoughts?" was modifying in my question. I also JUST SAID that my question was whether the build would be interesting to play, which cavernshark DID NOT ANSWER, but apparently me telling you to actually read the posts is not going to make you read them before replying. You've turned this thread into an off-topic sewage pile, so please never respond to anything I post again.
You said, I haven't seen these builds, so I thought it would be fun to make one. Thoughts?
If you wanted thoughts on your build, specifically of "whether the build would be interesting to play" It would have been more helpful to pose that question then hide it with the question you did ask, "Thoughts?"cavernshark says, Hey I have an alchemist now so here is where I'm coming from with my perspective.
Then he says.
As I read your build though, I can't help but feel that you've got two extremes. On one hand, you've got feats that really seem like you want to be up in enemies' faces (the tanky aspect and all the below-0 feats) but then you also have selected stats that heavily emphasize bombs and range (crossbow). So I think you'll find that either you're rarely getting hit so the tank stuff doesn't get a chance to kick in, or you'll have a hard time effectively lobbing bombs or shooting in melee if you are up in that range. Also, given that so much of your build is focused on defense, it might be hard to actually draw enemy attention if you are at range.
Bolded are his thoughts to the experience of playing your build. Prior to that is his analysis of your build. he's saying that the tankyness either doesn't matter or you'll have a hard time being useful in melee. Making this build less desirable.
How is this not answering your question about how interesting this character would be to play?
"And you didn't say"
AGAIN with the reading problem! THE BUILD SAYS BOOST DEXTERITY AT FOURTH.
Hey I missed a line, don't get all bent out of shape over it. You could be polite and say that you did but that it got put on the page after stats up above traits. It's not hard to miss it since it's that separate.
"I thought it would be fun to make one"
Not what I said. READ THE FREAKING POSTS. It says "PLAY" not "MAKE!" I already made the build, and I didn't need or want any of your "input"(criticism).
Dude seriously chill, I was summarizing, So you'd think it'd be interesting and fun to play one. If you're wanting thoughts on that part we can say. Cool, hope you have fun, since you didn't say there you're wanting our thoughts on if it'd be fun to play.
Seriously, just chill and think that we're trying to be helpful, because we are. If you post like this you're most likely not going to get many people to respond to you, and you're likely to get your comments moderated for insulting people.
lv8
20 Point Buy
Str: 10
Dex: 16 (15+1) I'm assuming here since it makes a nice number and you didn't say.
Con: 16
Int: 19 (14+2+2headband?+1)
Wis: 12
Cha: 7
1: Ferocious Resolve
2: Tumor Familiar (Hedgehog for +2 Will) You should specify that this should be a Guardian Familiar from the Familiar Folio as it's basically free AC and HP if you did.
3: Extra Discovery: Tanglefoot Bomb
4: Lingering Spirit
5: Ferocious Action
6: Spontaneous Healing
7: Die for your Master
8: Confusion Bomb
Ferocious Action probably isn't doing much for you other than dying faster. It's only a standard action to throw a bomb and since you don't have fast bomb you're only doing one a round anyways.
71 HP, 17 AC, attacks Bomb +10 4d6+4 DC 20(not bad) 12 per day. -26 is dead total of 97.
Here you're really not doing your build justice by not including the AC boosts you're likely to buy and the spells you're likely to have up. Yes you say, "with no gear" but that's not a really helpful picture. Reason is your AC never improves naturally so it looks bad that it's staying the same and so low.
Also your formatting could be improved by having the "sections" be on the same page. Add a few blank lines to make "The build at…" be at the top of the next page and it'll look and read better.
enemy is CR 8 monster creation table
High Attack 15 Average Damage 35
three hits puts you in <0 and if you're under 0 one hit could kill, even at half damage it could be enough to kill you. Better hope you're not focused because you can only use die for master once a round.
boss enemy is CR 10 monster creation table
High Attack 18 Average Damage 45
3 hits could kill you, 4 will for sure.
now the likelyhood of that much damage coming to use could be pretty low if you're just chilling in the back throwing your bombs, which at 1 per round you have plenty of so you're not running out. But again nothing to help with cover or in combat enemies. Also through it all you don't have precise bombs so your allies are always going to get splashed if you're targeting anything they are fighting in melee.
So I feel this wouldn't be all that fun to play because you're either in the back and/or being ignored and thus seldom need so much HP and negative HP, or you're in melee range and provoking for everything you do and probably will burn through your tankyness but for not much of a payoff. And 4 of the 8 feats/discoveries are only active at <0 and with all the AC and miss-chance you suggest we have with our gear and extracts, should hopefully never come up.
Personally If going with an undying idea melee seems like it's would feel more satisfying as you'd need it more.
Tenacious Survivor could maybe do this idea. Use your ferocity to do something when you're under 0 and not care because you can be "rezzed"
fairly cheaply.
Also Human with Heart of the Wilderness gives you a bigger buffer to be dead at.