Wild Shape

[Dr Styx]

Can a Druid use there Wild Shape and combine shape types? Beast Shape with Elemental body? In the Elimental discription is says they can look look like animals. Or use the spell to stack them?

[wraithstrike]

No. Polymorph effects only give specific allowances mentioned.Looking like an animal for cosmetic purposes is not the same as allowing you to use multiple spells.

[AwesomenessDog]

I'm not sure there is any specific ruling that doesn't let you use the Elemental body while under the affect of animal wild shape, but making a single elemental wild shape look like an animal doesn't do anything itself.

[Paulicus]

Polymorph spells don't stack, you have to choose which one stays active. It's in the polymorph subschool.

[Crimeo]

Paulicus wrote:

Polymorph spells don't stack, you have to choose which one stays active. It's in the polymorph subschool.

This is true, but wildshape is not a spell. I would normally be inclined to say it counts as a spell anyway since it is "as beastshape unless otherwise stated", however the school rules specifically calls out wildshape and describes it separately from spells for this purpose:

Quote:

You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.

One could potentially take this to mean that you can wildshape, then cast a polymorph spell afterward (only 1) that stacks, but not in reverse order (no spell then wildshape stacking).

Or one could take that to mean they are just clarifying/reminding you that wildshape would be included [because it works "as beast shape"]. Though if they did mean that, a much better way would have simply been "Wild shape counts as a spell for this purpose." not weirdly setting it apart with a different distinct label.

[AwesomenessDog]

Crimeo wrote:

Paulicus wrote:

Polymorph spells don't stack, you have to choose which one stays active. It's in the polymorph subschool.

This is true, but wildshape is not a spell. I would normally be inclined to say it counts as a spell anyway since it is "as beastshape unless otherwise stated", however the school rules specifically calls out wildshape and describes it separately from spells for this purpose:

Quote:

You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell.

One could potentially take this to mean that you can wildshape, then cast a polymorph spell afterward (only 1) that stacks, but not in reverse order (no spell then wildshape stacking).

Or one could take that to mean they are just clarifying/reminding you that wildshape would be included [because it works "as beast shape"]. Though if they did mean that, a much better way would have simply been "Wild shape counts as a spell for this purpose." not weirdly setting it apart with a different distinct label.

Seems to be the latter, I knew wild shape was "basically" polymorph but I didn't know if it was still classified as it.

[Crimeo]

Quote:

I knew wild shape was "basically" polymorph

Yes I think it would help tremendously all around if the rules were made clear (as in a FAQ) as exactly what it means in a broader sense throughout the game when any ability or whatever says "treat as [some spell]". There's dozens of them, so it would be very helpful. And comments like this inserted everywhere haphazardly throughout the book would then not be needed.

But cataloguing all the stupid little instances of ways and features that may or may not count sounds super boring for devs or players to sit down and do.

[AwesomenessDog]

Crimeo wrote:

Quote:

I knew wild shape was "basically" polymorph

Yes I think it would help tremendously all around if the rules were made clear (as in a FAQ) as exactly what it means in a broader sense throughout the game when any ability or whatever says "treat as [some spell]". There's dozens of them, so it would be very helpful. And comments like this inserted everywhere haphazardly throughout the book would then not be needed.

But cataloguing all the stupid little instances of ways and features that may or may not count sounds super boring for devs or players to sit down and do.

But... that's their job...

[Crimeo]

Technically their job is selling books. If some below-critical-threshold lack of clarity doesn't stop more than like three people buying books, and would take a hundred hours to do, then it may potentially be a poor business choice.

[Azten]

There's a nice homebrew archetype somewhere on the message boards that lets you combine wildshapes. It's actually pretty cool.

[James Risner]

Crimeo wrote:

One could potentially take this to mean that you can wildshape, then cast a polymorph spell afterward (only 1) that stacks, but not in reverse order (no spell then wildshape stacking).

No one could not.

[Chess Pwn]

Very many interpretations aren't valid. That doesn't stop people from having them. In one thread, we have people saying that "No." really actually meant maybe.

[Liz Courts]

A reminder to be civil—making personal attacks does not help the discussion.

[Paulicus]

Intent is clear. The devs aren't lawyers, so I suggest reading the rules using common sense, as Paizo has recommended.

[Crimeo]

For the issue immediately above, I think intent is almost certainly that both effects and spells should trigger choices against one another, yes.

I have no idea what intent is though regarding whether a previously affecting spell that wasn't chosen will go back to affecting you again after an intervening chosen spell ends. Either way seems potentially reasonable.