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I have a similar build for PFSP. However I made it to see how long he would live. So the build it self has a major flaw. But it might give you a idea of what to look for.
Also I suggest you read the book of the five rings. It is the best source material for a Ronin code. As it was written by the most famous Ronin of all time Miyamoto Musashi. In it he stress the need for mastering all weapons. In that relying on one weapon is the fools way. He was well know for his ability and willingness to throw his katana at opponents if he thought it would distract them enough for him to win.
PFSP
Human (This build dose not take off until level 5.)
Samurai: Starting at level 1. Then picking up levels in Monk, and unchained rouge. Before returning to samurai from them on.
Monk 1 (Wis Mod to AC.)
Unchained Rogue 3 (Evasion, Trap finding, Dex to damage.)
Str 11
Dex 18
Con 8
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha 7
Human Feat: Fast Leaner
1: Weapon Finesse (Retrained to Deadly Aim at level 3 when I picking up my fist level of Unchained Rogue.)
2 Monk 1: Dodge
3: Two Weapon Fighting
4 Rogue Talent: Weapon Training: Wakizashi
5: Point Blank Shot Finesses Training: Wakizashi
7: Rapid Shot
9: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10 Samurai 6: Improved Critical Wakizashi
11: Weapon Specialization: Wakizashi
Extending it out past PFSP.
13: Greater Weapon Focus: Wakizashi
15: Two Weapon Defense
16 Samurai 12: Greater Weapon Specialization: Wakizashi
18: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Samurai benifit greatly from multiclassing with a Sohei Monk;
- 2 levels will give 2 bonus Monk or Mounted feats
- 4 levels gives your mount a array of defensive powers
- 6 levels allows your Samurai to Flurry with a Bow or Naganata in armor, and a third bonus feat
- 8 levels give a second Flurry attack
you can also toss in a Blade of Sword-Saint to Flurry with an additional weapon.
One level of Swashbuckler and the Slashing Grace feat will get you dex-to-damage with a Katana wielded in one hand, and will get you the powerful Opportune Parry and Riposte deed. It's a much stronger way to go for a dex-based Samurai than losing 3 levels to Rogue.
If what you're really going for is an iconic unarmored sword-saint type character with a katana, there are other ways to do it that may be more effective. Things like Sacred Fist or Warpriest/Monk1 or Monk/Cleric1 with Shizuru as their deity can make powerful wisdom/strength based katana masters, combining flurry of blows with katana through the Crusader's Flurry feat, and adding varying levels of divine magic. Warpriest or it's Sacred Fist archetype have some extremely powerful abilities for it.
Crusaders Flurry needs Channel Energy, a Warpriest would have to be level 4
Crusaders Flurry needs Channel Energy, a Warpriest would have to be level 4
Yes, if you make a Warpriest/Monk1 'sword saint' you get to flurry at level 5; until then, you're just normally deadly with a katana. If going Human Sacred Fist, you get it at level 6 with your favored class bonus feat; before that you can use whatever combination of normal katana and unarmed flurry you want.
a Sacred Fist can take Crusaders Flurry at level 4. A human Warpriest can not take Crusaders Flurry at level 6 as a bonus feat or alternate favored class bonus; it is not a Combat Feat.
So I'm looking into creating a Samurai, but it's kind of odd the way I wish to build him. So any tips would be nice.
What I'm looking for is a high dex samurai build.
So, you're looking to build a lightly armored katana wielder who follows a code. Are there any other specific abilities you'd like, is it imperative for you to have no spells at all, and which level will you be starting at?
a Sacred Fist can take Crusaders Flurry at level 4. A human Warpriest can not take Crusaders Flurry at level 6 as a bonus feat or alternate favored class bonus; it is not a Combat Feat.
Ah yes, that's right. Typical Sacred Fist Crusader's progression is 1-proficiency/ 3-focus/ 5-flurry, but katana being exotic gets in the way and would bump it to 7; though a Half-Elf can do it by 5 like normal. A regular Warpriest/Monk1 takes it as soon as they can get it at 5.
You're forgetting the fact that AH4Virus317 is taking Samurai levels, which means EWP is not needed as a feat.
I also don't understand why the katana being Exotic would require a fourth feat.
Not using Sacred Fist to get Crusaders Flurry with a Warpriest is a terrible method; you lower your BAB, have lower Unarmed Strike dice, and flat out waste a level you can spend on something better.
Eh... clearly there's a miscommunication here. I was talking about using a Warpriest/Monk1 or Sacred Fist as an alternative to going dex-based Samurai if the idea was to create a katana-master without armor that uses Katana flurry. Not creating some multiclass mess.
If using Samurai as the core of the character, I wouldn't multiclass more than necessary since Challenge and other features get weakened. Swashbuckler can get dex-to-damage with katana and a very useful bonus feature with a single level, so it's pretty ideal in this situation.
As far as the Ronin thing goes, the Order of the Dragon is similar to what the OP is describing and it's generally considered one of the best orders due to the bonus to attack that the Samurai is a little weak on.
a Dex to damage Samurai would work better as a Daring Champion Cavalier with the Ronin Order and Eastern Armor.
a Dex to damage Samurai would work better as a Daring Champion Cavalier with the Ronin Order and Eastern Armor.
Yes, the Daring Champion is a pretty good option in a lot of ways and worth considering. The down-side though is that Daring Champion doesn't get Opportune Parry and Riposte (anymore), and since they're a Cavalier Archetype they miss out on a lot of the Samurai abilities. Things like the Mount, the Resolve feature and the Weapon Expertise feature are both useful and thematic. They're both pretty good options.
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There are definitely some great suggestions to consider!
I've been debating between two TWF builds for PFS, a debilitating ninja or a pure samurai fashioned after Pirate Hunter Roronoa Zoro from One Piece.
Human Order of the Flame Samurai (from Blood of Elements)
Primary feats:
TWF, ITWF, Double Slice, and Weapon Finesse.
Optional feats:
Critical Focus
Improved Critical
Weapon Focus -> Weapon Specialization
Power Attack
GTWF
General idea is to pack as much damage into each swing as possible stacking successive glorious challenges (+level to dmg from challenge + 2 * successive glorious challenges + PA/W.Spec/etc). Also, given the theme each sword would have a distinct name, special material, and enchant (+2, limning, mimetic, etc)
Dex to damage with this build would rely on agile weapon enchants which would substitute nicely on damage but would be yet another expense on maintaining at least two magic weapons. I'm contemplating retooling the build to use Str instead for atk/dmg to free up any feat/level-dip/enchant requirements. This would also remove the "YMMV" on whether or not the agile weapon enchant will work with double slice and two-weapon rend.
Something like:
16 Str (Primary belt/buff focus)
14+2 Dex (+1 @ lvl 4 to get ITWF@6 and, if desired, +2 from belt to get GTWF@11)
15 Con (+1 @ lvl 8)
8 Int
10 Wis
10 Cha
Another option to consider for a strength-based TWF master is the Guide/Skirmisher Ranger. Guide replaces Favored Enemy with "Ranger's Focus", which operates just like a challenge with less damage but a huge attack bonus. Skirmisher replaces spells with very handy 'hunter's tricks' like entangling an enemy as a free action with an attack. Their attack bonuses reach such absurd heights that even dual wield katana isn't that difficult.
If going TWF Samurai, consider going strength-based while using a Dual Talent Human to start with two racial bonuses. It's easy to naturally hit 17DEX that way without sacrificing strength - something like
15/17+, 15/17, 14, 10, 12, 9, and you're free to focus on your strength from then on.
If you are two handing you should definitly go a strength build and skip the Rogue levels; 3 dip levels is simply not worth the bonus' to hit and damage, especially when you can get them elsewhere. a 2 level dip into fighter will allow you to purchace both Weapon Focus and Specialization, and a 3 level dip into Weapon Master will additionally give Weapon Training; combine that with some Gloves of Dueling and you have a +4 to attack rolls and a +5 to damage.
The above combination will give larger bonus' than changing your damage type to DEX, assuming you have a 13 STR (for Power Attack) and 18 DEX
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I have a similar build for PFSP. However I made it to see how long he would live. So the build it self has a major flaw. But it might give you a idea of what to look for.
Over all he has lived to level 3. With only 2 close calls both happened at level 1. The build makes me think tactics over brut force. Like I open combat with him using the bow. Moving each round closer to melee but firing the bow. I'm not scared of getting in to melee. However I can't go in to combat with out a tactical plan in my head. Using the right weapon for the threat you face can make a huge difference. I know it never gets in the TV shows or the movies. Most samurai just like knights carried a variety of weapons for the challenges they face. He has worked much better then I ever expected him to. It dose make for a interesting game playing a character one crit from death all the time.
Buzen Masato
Samurai Order Ronin 1
Monk 1
Unchained Rogue 1
HP 18
AC 18 (22 Potion or wand of mage armor)
Fort 3
Ref 9
Will 5
Total Skill Ranks: 26
Feat's: Fast Learner, Deadly Aim, Dodge, Two Weapon Fighting
Rogue Finesses Dex to hit.
Monk Wis Mod to AC.
Wakizashi (Two Weapon Fighting) 5 (3/3) 1D6 18-20/X2
Jutte 5 1D6 20/X2
Shuriken 5 1D2 20/X2 range 10ft
Master Work Longbow Composite (Deadly Aim) 6(5) 1D8(+2) 20/X3 range 110ft
I wasn't suggesting TWF, but that can work; your Challange bonus is a flat damage bonus on every attack, so more attacks = more damage.
If you still wish go dex you can also use my Weapon Master build and add in the Advanced Weapon Training feat to gain Trained Grace.
Advanced Weapon Training (Combat)
You are specially trained to use your weapon skills in new ways.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 5th, weapon training class feature.
Benefit: Select one advanced weapon training option, applying it to one fighter weapon group you have already selected with the weapon training class feature.
Special: This feat can be taken more than once, but at most once per 5 fighter levels.
Special: Fighters that have the weapon masterAPG archetype can select this feat beginning at 4th level. The benefits of a weapon master’s advanced weapon training options apply only to his selected weapon rather than all weapons in the same fighter weapon group, and he can’t select the weapon specialist advanced weapon training option. A weapon master can select this feat as a bonus feat; if he does so, it doesn’t count for the purpose of the requirement that it can be taken at most once per 5 fighter levels.Trained Grace (Ex): When the fighter uses Weapon Finesse to make a melee attack with a weapon, using his Dexterity modifier on attack rolls and his Strength modifier on damage rolls, he doubles his weapon training bonus on damage rolls. The fighter must have Weapon Finesse in order to choose this option.
You now get double your Weapon Training bonus (+6) to damage, which stacks with the Aglie property. Wield two Agile Wakizashi and bring the pain.
Try picking up Effortless Lace for your Katana, which lets it count as a light weapon for many things. It becomes eligible for Weapon Finesse, you can then enchant it with Agile, and you no longer need the Rogue dip.
Also makes 2-weapon fighting easier as your penalties are lower.
As for myself, I'd reflavor the lace as a chain or silk ribbon attached to the pommel that bears your Clan or Family crest, or that of your lord.
Effortless Lace works if you're not playing PFS
Just to clarify, a Katana cannot be used with Weapon Finesse (unless you have an Effortless Lace on it, but then you still can't get dex-to-damage with it from Unchained Rogue). It can be used with Swashbuckler Finesse or the Cavalier Archetype version of that ability, which works just like Weapon Finesse. But even if you can use it with Finesse, you need the feat Slashing Grace to get dex-to-damage with it, and that only works with a one-handed grip.
If you use Rogue to get dex-to-damage you're stuck with using a Wakizashi (or two).
If the idea is to wield a katana in two hands without wearing much armor while using the Samurai class, consider something like:
Samurai / Master of Many Styles Monk 1
Dual Talent Human:
STR 16/18, +levels, +belt
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 14/16, +headband
CHA 8
Favored Class Bonus: HP
1S. Weapon Focus: Katana
2M. (Bonus: Improved Unarmed Strike) / Monk Bonus Feat: Crane Style
3S. Dodge
4S.
5S. Power Attack
6S.
7S. Crane Wing / Samurai Bonus Feat: Weapon Specialization: Katana
8S.
9S. Crane Riposte
When attacking on your turn, use two-handed Katana Power Attacks. Once you're done attacking, change to a one-handed grip as a free action so that Crane Style is active (and make attacks of opportunity one handed). When it's time to attack again, switch back to two handed with a free action, and so on.
The level of Monk means that your wisdom is added to your Armor Class, so you can improve your 'armor' with a Headband of Wisdom, and you can use Bracers of Armor instead of magic armor. Crane Style gives you a bonus to armor when you "Fight Defensively", and makes it cost you less attack bonus. By the time you have Crane Riposte it's a very powerful boost to armor class (though a little bit complicated), and it only costs -1 attack to use. Take at least 3 ranks of the Acrobatics skill to add another point of AC to the bonus.
When you put it all together with a +2 wisdom headband, you're getting +1 Dodge, +4 wisdom, +4 fighting defensively with Crane Style, and +4 (sometimes) with Crane Wing, plus whatever Bracers of Armor you've got. When you put it all together it's pretty solid "armor".
The Swordplay Style chain from the Weapon Masters Handbook would suit a Samurai more and wouldn't require a dip into Monk. The build your displaying would have no battle stratagy other than "I hit it really hard"
The primary purpose of the dip into Monk is to link an otherwise valuable mental ability score (which can utilize it's own ability enhancement item) to AC as a second source of Dodge. Since Wisdom in this case adds to both CMD and Will saves, it's a very useful stat to invest in. Adding in Crane Style brings the total defensive picture up to a level on par with a heavy armor user, while Crane Wing floats a temporary bonus on top of that that's similar to a moderately enhanced shield.
Otherwise, yes, the basic strategy is to maintain a typically solid defense while hitting things very hard, which isn't exactly an unorthodox Samurai strategy. It works within the parameters that the OP seems to want, and it uses fairly standard resources. I'm not really sure what the problem is that you're trying to express.
The problem with using WIS for AC is that there is zero other reason for the investment. Any fears of a low Will save can be alleviated with feats or traits.
Gold is a more plentiful resource than Ability Score points and putting points into WIS is a waste - the Samurai has zero abilities dependent on the stat. Armor the cheaper on rescources. And doesnt cost 3 feats like your Crane Style line.
Now if a Samurai wants to invest in a mental stat, CHA is the way to go. Why? Chain Challange, Handle Animal (a requirement for his mount) and socal interactions.
What about the good old Intimidate build: thug rogue 1/samurai x? Consider the order of the cockatrice.
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If going TWF Samurai, consider going strength-based while using a Dual Talent Human to start with two racial bonuses. It's easy to naturally hit 17DEX that way without sacrificing strength - something like
15/17+, 15/17, 14, 10, 12, 9, and you're free to focus on your strength from then on.
Also a good suggestion. Although, upon looking further at dual talent it looks like you have to give up skilled *and* the bonus feat which, I think, is too steep. It basically strips the main perks of being human. With a dump stat option, you'd almost be better off picking a different race with the right stat adjustments and you'd get additional benefits like a nagaji or a dwarf.
Now if a Samurai wants to invest in a mental stat, CHA is the way to go. Why? Chain Challange, Handle Animal (a requirement for his mount) and socal interactions.
Dang, I was excited for a moment as I had not yet heard of the Chain Challenge feat. Seems like pre-July 2015 would have been the best time to play my intimidation samurai but sadly Chain Challenge and Hurtful are no longer legal in PFS. :(
What about the good old Intimidate build: thug rogue 1/samurai x? Consider the order of the cockatrice.
My current samurai, mentioned above, is order of the cockatrice and has been a lot of fun to play. He just got a cruel weapon enchant and picked up cornugon smash. I can't wait to try the combo out, next level is shatter defenses. He's 2h str build katana wielder with a level dip in ranger (favored enemy + lead blades) and infernal bloodrager (shield, bloodrage, hellfire strike for flavor, long arm, and enlarge person).
Thug rogue is an interesting level dip choice. Adds 1d6 on sneak attack, a lot of skill points, and gives some control options on deciding what guys stay as shaken and what guys flee as frightened. However, I feel like any heightened fear state beyond shaken can be a double-edged sword with risks of additional aggro, an enemy dim dooring away completely, etc. Since my build was focused on intimidation the creature would likely be dead before the additional round of shaken would come into play.
For the OP, I think dex to damage builds and TWF builds tend to be more feat intensive than say a 2h. Correct me if I'm wrong but usually you just need power attack with decent strength and you're good to go for the most part. From what I've read, it is difficult for TWF damage output to keep up with 2h unless you can add consistent damage buffs like bane, challenge, sneak attack etc.
The problem with using WIS for AC is that there is zero other reason for the investment. Any fears of a low Will save can be alleviated with feats or traits.
Gold is a more plentiful resource than Ability Score points and putting points into WIS is a waste - the Samurai has zero abilities dependent on the stat. Armor the cheaper on rescources. And doesnt cost 3 feats like your Crane Style line.
Now if a Samurai wants to invest in a mental stat, CHA is the way to go. Why? Chain Challange, Handle Animal (a requirement for his mount) and socal interactions.
Considering that the OP's original purpose was a Samurai with light or no armor, arguing that armor is the 'cheaper' resource isn't really relevant.
The Will save gain, which addresses a standard concern for such a martial character, is effectively +2 from 1 Monk level and then +3+ from investing in wisdom; Iron Will, which you're advocating spending a feat on while complaining about feat use, is a +2. Traits are another finite resource and contribute either single points or specialized bonuses.
Besides Will saves, wisdom also contributes to Perception, Sense Motive and other skills, and in the case of a Samurai/Monk, it contributes to CMD as well.
If there are other feats that you'd favor, it's simple to switch out Crane Riposte for Greater Weapon Focus and drop Crane Wing and Weapon Specialization in favor of any two other feats; Crane Style alone brings overall armor up to a typical heavy armor range (and without the movement penalty).
Again, the overall build is designed to function within the parameters that the OP was describing while using fairly straightforward resources (primarily the book which Samurai is in), in consideration of the fact that he's a new player trying to get the hang of character creation.
If you've got alternative ideas, great. But I'm not sure taking shots at other very functional options while seemingly ignoring the concept that the OP is going for and preaching optimization from sources like Monster Codex is all that helpful.
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BadBird's advice reminded me of an Aldori Swordlord guide I came across that also consistently relied upon incorporating Monk dips for Crane Style. The guide does not incorporate the latest errata for Crane Wing but still offers some nice choices. Just another option for a low/unarmored swordsman.