Class design challenge: 1 / 2 BAB

[My Self]

How would you make a balanced, effective class with 1/2 BAB that doesn't get 9 or 6-level casting or pseudocasting, and doesn't get pseudo-3/4 or full BAB?

[Diminuendo]

A support focused class.

I'd build a forgemaster class, who can enchant any weapon he has personally created during combat, whether or not they are the one currently wielding it.

Maybe even give them a class feature that gives a Cohort, in the same capacity as a Hunter gives an Animal Companion

[Rynjin]

Maybe something like an artificer sort of class?

Gets all the Craft Feats sans prereqs (besides level prereqs, probably), quicker crafting, and probably an option to use level = CL for the purpose of wands, potions, and scrolls. Maybe some side benefits for allies. A good one could be adding Metamagic to items without a cost increase. Pass around cheap Empowered Cure Serious Wounds potions or something.

[N. Jolly]

With lots of spell-like abilities.

Kidding aside, I was also thinking about something in this same area with a 3/4ths bab with no casting since aside from monk (who's pseudo full BAB), there's no other 3/4ths bab character with no casting, and even the monk has innately magical abilities, making the rogue the only 3/4ths class with no innate magical abilities.

For me, this would probably be some kind of buffing class too, maybe something like a more hex focused witch with more hexing variety.

[Charon's Little Helper]

I actually built one back in 3.5, though I never got to play-test it properly. It was inspired by the combat-puppet wielding ninjas in Naruto.

Basically the character himself was a weak combatant with 1/2 BAB, d4hd (same as wizard at the time), and used his own actions to control first one, then quickly two (at level 2-3, I forget exactly) and eventually up to three puppets around the battlefield. (They weren't really constructs and couldn't move on their own at all. There were rules about splitting up his actions - eventually he could give up a single action to give it to two of his puppets, though the 3rd wouldn't be able to attack on the same turn.)

The puppet-master could see through the eyes of his puppets. The range was rather limited, but the puppet-master had hide/move silently as a class skills (bigger deal in 3.5) and could control the puppets without giving away his position.

The puppets themselves weren't that great of combatants, but they had multiple arms along with using the puppet-master's rather low SA (1 per 4 levels). Plus they were crazy maneuverable, could flank with each-other, and had extra little tricks depending upon the puppet type. (kunai launchers etc)

[AM DEVELOPER]

Give him a tail, the ability to diflect a single attack per round, 8 skill ranks per level, and a situational damage boost that is entirely dependent on other party members battlefield positions.

Naw, that's over-the-top broken.

[Shiroi]

Hmmm. Joking aside, I could make a half bab martial designed around making single large attacks rather than many normal ones. A 1/2 bab class with some variation on weapon training per fighter, to make his highest bab as accurate as a 3/4 or full BAB but he still only gets a single hit. He gets vital strike as a free feat when he gets his second attack. He gains bonuses to damage and increases the size of the weapon he is allowed to wield regularly. Eventually he becomes a hulking armored mass that drags a monumental club around and swings to level buildings. But he hits a single time (possibly with dragon tail sweep rules) so his bab doesn't matter.

Companions works too but since they're likely to get 3/4 or better bab and be the focus of the class I feel that's kinda cheating.

I can also see a defensive class that gets 1/2 bab, but all of their ability is con based by nature (fiddly wording to prevent dipping for fighters/barbs) and they use a kind of anti rage power. They force opponents to attack them and only them, or not at all, if they are within x range of an opponent. Then they get some way to survive the attack (DR equal to class level, SR equal to 10+ class level, resistance equal to class level, and fast healing equal to 1/4 class level for 1/4 class level rounds after taking an attack while an ally is threatened or some similar lineup of defensive abilities).
This class is all about standing in the way of the blade for the other 1/2 bab guy on your team. (Up until his spell list makes you and everyone else in the party irrelevant)

[SanKeshun]

A tank. Someone who can outlive everyone. Their attacks might suck, yes, but they are impossible to kill. Eventually, everyone gets a crit, right?

I even drafted a class for you:

Tank:

1/2 BAB, with all good saves and d10 hit die.
Proficient with simple and martial weapons, all armor, and shields (including tower shields).
Indestructible (Ex) At first level, a tank gains a pool of points representing his endurance. This pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 his tank level + his Constitution modifier.
As a swift action, he can spend one point from this pool to grant himself a +1 bonus to AC for 1 minute. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond first (+2 at fifth, +3 at ninth, etc). This bonus does not stack with itself.
This pool regenerates after 8 hours of rest.
Endurance All tanks gain Endurance as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Perseverance (Ex) At 2nd level, the tank becomes even harder to kill. Whenever he would fall below 0 hit points, he can spend one or more points from his indestructible pool as an immediate action. Each point spent heals him by an amount equal to his level.
Diehard All tanks gain Diehard as a bonus feat at 3rd level.
Armor Training Starting at 3rd level, a tank learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –4 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +4 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.
Evasion (Ex) At 4th level, a tank can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex save against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. A helpless tank does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Shrug It Off (Ex) At 4th level, a tank can spend a number of points up to his Constitution modifier from his indestructible pool when making a save as an immediate action. He gains a bonus on his save equal to the number of points spent.
Unstoppable (Ex) At 5th level, a tank gains immunity to any effect that would reduce his speed. He is no longer slowed by his armor or endurance.
Damage Reduction (Ex) At 6th level, a tank gains damage reduction. Subtract 1 from the damage the tank takes each time he is dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. At 9th level, and every three barbarian levels thereafter (12th, 15th, and 18th level), this damage reduction rises by 1 point. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.
Mighty Perseverance (Ex) At 8th level, a tank can heal himself at any time. He can spend a number of points from his indestructible pool up to his Constitution modifier as a standard action to heal himself by 1d10 hit points per point spent.
Stalwart (Ex) At 10th level, a tank can use mental and physical resiliency to avoid certain attacks. If he makes a Fortitude or Will saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, he instead avoids the effect entirely. A helpless tank does not gain the benefit of the stalwart ability.
Improved Evasion (Ex) At 13th level, a tank's evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless tank does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Shatterhide (Ex) By 14th level, a tank is strong enough to damage those who attack him. Weapons that strike him while he has increased AC from his indestructible pool ability take damage equal to his AC bonus. This can destroy the weapon. Creatures that strike with natural weapons also take this damage.
Mirrorhide (Ex) At 16th level, a tank can even reflect spells. By spending two points from his indestructible pool, he gains SR until his next turn equal to 10 + his tank level + his Con modifier.
Irongut (Ex) At 17th level, even the tank's organs are becoming endurant. All critical hits and sneak attacks against the tank have a 50% chance of resolving as ordinary attacks.
Armor Mastery (Ex) At 19th level, a tank increases his Damage Reduction by 5 whenever he is wearing armor or using a shield.
Without Death (Ex) At 20th level, a tank can even stave off the Reaper Man. Upon dying, if he has at least 10 points left in his indestructible pool, a tank can cast the raise dead spell on himself as an immediate action by expending 10 points from his indestructible pool.

[Shiroi]

Also a poisoner. Someone who literally makes poisons as part of their class, with a save dc of 10+1/2lvl+mod of some sort (int feels right) and a variety of effects chosen at the start of the day. You get a number of poisons each morning and you make them semi-spon style like an alchemists extracts. That is, 1 min per dose to produce so you can make a few each day and save some to decide what to do with them later.

Your options are stat damage of 1d2/2lvls to a stat chosen at creation (so 2d2 at 4, up to 5d2 at 10), a status effect such as sleep/para/blind/nausea/stun/staggered, or a death effect.

Death effects use a lower save dc, weak effects last longer than strong effects, duration increases by your level, get access to the alchemist poison discoveries and select rogue talents... this class hits once, and makes it count with a nasty selection of dangerous effects added. A true poisoner class that makes the normal poison system cry like it should.

[Psyren]

Incarnate is 1/2 BAB and is reasonably-well balanced; even moreso we've got the thematically similar Vizier from DSP's Akashic Mysteries.

[Zhayne]

Someone who makes all his attacks via touch. (Blah gunslinger blah.)

[SmiloDan]

Maybe a pseudo-monk tank? It would look weak (no armor, poor weapons), but be really tough (maybe 1d12 HD, 2 or 3 good saves), so it would look like an attractive target to opponents. Maybe something my zealot idea from the vigilante playtest, where instead of getting spells, it took the pain and used it. It would also be able to heal allies or at least take the wounds from them, similar to shield other.

[Ethereal Gears]

Why, with a Con-based master of swarms, of course!

Swarm attacks don't need no stinking attack bonus! :)

I should mention that the Myriant is still very much a work in progress and I wasn't actually going to post it anywhere just yet, but what the heck. Have a gander if you like. With the caveat that a lot of the stuff in there may need tweaking, removing or OH GOD KILL IT WITH FIRE! :)

Cheers,
- Gears

[ErichAD]

I suppose I'd make something that had an aura that altered the state of the terrain and some features of those who willingly walked into it.

For example, treating everyone who came within 25 feet as an aligned outsider and allowing the character to remember some other location replacing the terrain in that area with the terrain from the remembered location. Then giving them some additional level based effects like light level, weather, dangerous environments and traps.

Aside from that, I'd give them a flexible feat pool, a high amount of skills and their choice of a domain, wizard school or bloodline.

[Cyrad]

Class that gets a class feature as versatile and powerful as 9-level spellcasting or a fighting class with a special attack that makes the 1/2 BAB irrelevant.

[Ethereal Gears]

Or a guy who turns into a couple of hundred weasels! :D

[Excaliburproxy]

My favorite version of this concept is a sort of chronomancer/leader class that gives allies extra actions.

I have two such classes kicking around on my hard drive somewhere.

I have the magical-follower-focused Prince class that has a "give action" resource and the adore-mentioned chronomancer. I posted the Prince on here forever ago but it was kind of busted at the time. I have a less busted incomplete version somewhere.

Maybe I should post my chronomancer, though.

[Ethereal Gears]

I wanna see a cool chronomancer!

Another take on this chassis concept I did was the Uncommoner archetype I wrote up for my Shadewright base class. The idea with that one was to play, basically, a "commoner" who is constantly pursued by a bunch of unexplained eldritch phenomena, spooky stuff that "happens to" them rather than abilities they willfully use. Of course in game terms it's still in the hands of the player.

[Cerberus Seven]

My Self wrote:

How would you make a balanced, effective class with 1/2 BAB that doesn't get 9 or 6-level casting or pseudocasting, and doesn't get pseudo-3/4 or full BAB?

Something like the kineticist comes to mind. If all his attacks are vs touch, it would work.

A more interesting idea, though, would be to do something similar to the Engineer from the 3.X Warcraft RPG (or was it called Scavenger?). They build machines to perform all kinds of functions, from firearms and bombs, to shields and vehicles, robot scouts and sensory apparatuses. So, no magic, no great skill at combat, but you'd have boat loads of skills and the ability to MacGyver a scrap heap into a hulking weapon of war you ride inside of. So, in a low-tech world like Golarion, you'd be Gazlowe. In a high tech world, you'd be Tony Stark.

[Scud422]

Excaliburproxy wrote:

My favorite version of this concept is a sort of chronomancer/leader class that gives allies extra actions.

I have two such classes kicking around on my hard drive somewhere.

I have the magical-follower-focused Prince class that has a "give action" resource and the adore-mentioned chronomancer. I posted the Prince on here forever ago but it was kind of busted at the time. I have a less busted incomplete version somewhere.

Maybe I should post my chronomancer, though.

Have you seen the Time Thief?

[Ciaran Barnes]

Jean Grey gone all insane-Phoenixy.

[RJGrady]

an Obnoxious Sidekick class. They would have strong abilities with maneuvers, good skills, some nice Feint-based tricks, the ability to disrupt spells and SLAs, uncanny survival of deadly attacks, and a few takedown abilities for when they need to attack directly.

[Kaisoku]

A new take on the Sensei Monk. Basically sort of a bard/martial artist that doesn't do any serious combat actions himself (although very good at defensive/deflection techniques, minimal action style), where he basically boosts others with combat bonuses, extra actions per round, and barks commands to give allies instant access to martial arts techniques (fast movement, extra unarmed strike attacks, stunning blows, etc).

Relies on his allies to defeat foes. Basically, all his "attacks" are made by others.

[christos gurd]

Yeah I could see this with some sort of weapoint striking(touch ac) class that also gets enhancement bonuses.

[Headfirst]

How about something like the noble class from Star Wars? Lots of social skills, call in favors, bonus gold, etc.

[Goddity]

Give him a ridiculous damage boost. His accuracy is bad, but he'll kill everything he hits.

[Malwing]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a third party class with no spells and 1/2 BAB. Let me take a look at my book shelf...

Can't find it. I must have been mistaken. Best I could find was the Thaumaturge from Thunderscape but that's cheating. It summons spirits to mimic other martials.

[PathlessBeth]

The Onmyoji, Harmonisicst, and Antipodist all do well with 1/2 BAB.

[Excaliburproxy]

Ethereal Gears wrote:

I wanna see a cool chronomancer!

Another take on this chassis concept I did was the Uncommoner archetype I wrote up for my Shadewright base class. The idea with that one was to play, basically, a "commoner" who is constantly pursued by a bunch of unexplained eldritch phenomena, spooky stuff that "happens to" them rather than abilities they willfully use. Of course in game terms it's still in the hands of the player.

I'll post it tomorrow then probably.

Scud422 wrote:

Excaliburproxy wrote:

My favorite version of this concept is a sort of chronomancer/leader class that gives allies extra actions.

I have two such classes kicking around on my hard drive somewhere.

I have the magical-follower-focused Prince class that has a "give action" resource and the adore-mentioned chronomancer. I posted the Prince on here forever ago but it was kind of busted at the time. I have a less busted incomplete version somewhere.

Maybe I should post my chronomancer, though.

Have you seen the Time Thief?

I had not. I like mine better, but they are also not exactly directly comparable. This is more of a rogue-replacement whereas mine is a full support class.

[Excaliburproxy]

Here you go.

The Chronomancer:
Link to my new thread.