Paladin Defensive Build Help

[Speckledorf]

Good day wondrous world of Pathfinders. I am working on rerolling a lvl 2 character to a Paladin. I am mostly finished, but I was wondering if my build would be worthwhile.

FYI, we are using a conversion for 3.5 Iron Kingdoms into Pathfinder.

I am focusing on a sword-and-board build, to provide my party with some tank. I am a Human, with base ability scores of (25 point buy) 16, 14, 14, 12, 8, 14. I have optional racial ability score changes of -2DEX, 2WIS, 2CHA, and I am adding my human bonus to DEX (net change of 0).

For feats, I am planning on taking Improved Shield Bash, Fast Learner, and Power Attack. At third level I am aiming for Saving Shield (gotta help our charging Barbarian), at fifth level I will take Two-Weapon-Fighting, and and seventh I will take Shield Slam. My level 4 ability score increase would go into DEX to fulfill the 15DEX requirement of TWF. By that point, my goal would be to charge in with my Barbarian ally and slam into the target with the intent of disabling them.

Thanks to the reroll, I have enough money to purchase Scale armor, any basic shield with spikes (including quickdraw), and a plethora of weapons. I was thinking of taking both a Flail and a Longsword as 1H weapons, a Glaive-Guisarme as a reach polearm, and possibly a Bastard Sword as a 2H weapon (until I can afford a Falchion).

Is there anything terrible with this build? Any recommendations on the shield? What about weapons?

Almost forgot, party is a Barbarian (damage minmaxed), a Cleric (healing and damage emphasis), an Alchemist (Alchemist Fires everywhere), an Archane Mechanik (Iron Kingdoms class, support mage with a strong familiar), and a Gunmage (Iron Kingdoms class, glass cannon enhanced with magic, literally).

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

I personally Like to Take the Dangerously Curious Trait....Buy a wand of Shield for 750gp and using a Great Sword. With 50 charges you can easily use the wand before entering a room you suspect a fight.

You also end up with a higher AC, Force Shield for Incorporeal, Auto negate Magic Missile, and 2 hands free to make that power attack more effective.

Tanking in Pathfinder is basically getting a decent AC, making yourself a threat to them, and putting yourself in a line of attack. There is no Threat or Provoke mechanic to hold aggro.

Also with the freed up feats you could easily take Fey Foundling and Fast Learner, Power attack, and Extra Lay on Hands...you will have lots of Sustain and Plenty of Damage.

[mechaPoet]

Fey Foundling is a great feat for a paladin who wants to stay alive! You can only take it at first level, but it makes your lay on hands extra good when you use it on yourself. You could also pair that with 1 - 3 levels of oracle with the life mystery and the life link revelation to provide some hp battery style healing for your teammates, while taking mostly paladin levels to stay sharp in combat.

[calagnar]

For pure defensive build. I build very similar to what you have. I however went with 1 level dip in to fighter. This gives me a bonus feet and tower shield proficiency. I looked at the two weapon fighting with weapon and shield. However I did not go that route due to the cost in ability scores. For your main weapon I highly recommend you look in to a falcate. It is the best one handed weapon you can get. It will take a feet to use.

My Suggestion for you
(Includes ability adjustments you listed. With the human bonus to Str.)
Str 18 Dex 12 Con 14 Int14 Wis 10 Cha 14
Human Fighter 1 Paladin 1 (Favored Class Paladin)
Skill Ranks: Fighter 5 Paladin 6
Hit Points fighter 10+2=12 Paladin 1D10+3
Feet:
1: Fey Foundling (One of the best feet's a paladin can have.)
Fighter 1: Exotic Weapon Falcate (Damage 1D8 Crit 19-20/X3)
Human: Fast Learner

Picking up Power Attack level 3, Extra Lay on Hands level 5, and shield focus level 7. Are my next suggestions.

[Shroud]

I have been running a rock solid PFS Paladin for years. He is primarily designed to be a rock, defending himself and others around him. Currently he is thusly:

Human Paladin-9th
S-14(16), D-13, C-14(16), I-10, W-12, Ch-18(20)
AC: 31 (T:14, FF:29)
HP: 85
CMB: 14 CMD: 28 (+1 vs. grapples)
Saves: Fort: +16, Ref: +11, Will: +14
Traits: Armor Expert, Seeker
Feats: (presented in order of acquisition) Shield Focus, Dodge, Greater Mercy, Improved Initiative, Vital Strike, Extra Mercy (Neutralize Poison)

Mercies: Sickened, Disease, Remove Curse (Neutralize Poison)

Skill Ranks (33 pts): Diplomacy-9, Handle Animal-1, Heal-1, Knw Nobility-1, Knw Religion-6, Linguistics-1, Perception-9, Ride-1, Sense Motive-2, Spellcraft-1, Use Magic Device-1

Magic Items: Full Plate Armor +2, Heavy Darkwood Shield +2, Longsword +1 Holy, Headband of Charisma +2, Belt of Physical Prowess +2 (Str/Con), Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Cloak of Resistance +2, Armband of the Brawler, Wayfinder with Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone socketed, Cracked Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone, Ioun Torch, Knight Inheritor's Ring, Ring of Feather Falling, Inheritor's Guantlet, Wand of Cure Light Wounds, Pot of Fly, Pot of CSW, 2x Pot of CMW, 2x Scroll of Lesser Restoration, Scroll of Endure Elements

[Melkiador]

Fey Foundling is so great. The attached flavor tastes bad to me though. Sometimes you want the power without the backstory.

[My Self]

Huh, what about an Oracle 1 and Noble Scion (War) mixed in? You could keep DEX dumped and use CHA as AC and initiative instead.

[Renegadeshepherd]

In theory you could go down the bodyguard chain and absorb the hits for everyone rather than traditional defense.

[Speckledorf]

calagnar wrote:

For pure defensive build. I build very similar to what you have. I however went with 1 level dip in to fighter. This gives me a bonus feet and tower shield proficiency. I looked at the two weapon fighting with weapon and shield. However I did not go that route due to the cost in ability scores. For your main weapon I highly recommend you look in to a falcate. It is the best one handed weapon you can get. It will take a feet to use.

My Suggestion for you
(Includes ability adjustments you listed. With the human bonus to Str.)
Str 18 Dex 12 Con 14 Int14 Wis 10 Cha 14
Human Fighter 1 Paladin 1 (Favored Class Paladin)
Skill Ranks: Fighter 5 Paladin 6
Hit Points fighter 10+2=12 Paladin 1D10+3
Feet:
1: Fey Foundling (One of the best feet's a paladin can have.)
Fighter 1: Exotic Weapon Falcate (Damage 1D8 Crit 19-20/X3)
Human: Fast Learner

Picking up Power Attack level 3, Extra Lay on Hands level 5, and shield focus level 7. Are my next suggestions.

So in this case, are you implying that I take a Tower Shield since you took a level in fighter? This also means that I would have to level one additional time to get Lay on Hands (since it is a level 3 Paladin spell, and next 'level' i'd be at Paladin 2 and Fighter 1), right?

EDIT: Whoops, I see that Lay on Hands is level 2, but the question still applies. Wouldn't I have to wait an additional level to use it?

[calagnar]

Yes you do. However you gain a few things in return. I tend to build characters based on miniatures. And tower shield can be used for more then just AC. Place one in a door way and you have total cover. Plant the shield to block range attacks coming from one direction. The only down side is high level Zen archers and spell casters.

[Declindgrunt]

I have a friend who is playing a paladin tank in our mummies mask game and he is tanking just fine here's his build

human
16,10,14,8,12,16 (he gave up his human feat for the extra +2 to a stat to make his str and cha 18's)

1 lvl Lore oracle for sidestep (cha instead of dex to ac)
the rest of the lvls paladin

fey foundling can be really good
he took the greater mercy feat for even more lay on hands healing
additional Revelations to get his cha mod to knowledge checks and with a point in every knowledge he has a pretty good knowledge check

power attack is a must

you could then get shield focus and missile shield to help with ranged attacks.

our paladin went skill focus diplomacy and the persuasive feat for an insane diplomacy check but its not very good for combat lol

[Zenogu]

I'll chime in with one thing to add. The Divine Interference feat is actually superb on a "guardian" theme paladin. Very defensive in nature, and it just might save your friend from a critical hit every now and then. Obviously it's only meant for higher levels, but that's something to think about once you've got the basics out of the way.

[sirkydor]

If your going defensive .. another potion is going Rapier or something with a good crit range.. Combat Expertise for defense an butterfly sting to set up your allies.

[Bofor]

The following may not apply to the style of play that the OP is involved with, but it has been my experience that having too high of an AC for a Paladin is less helpfull for the party. Paladins generally have good HPs and can effectively heal themselves in combat without sacrificing their offensive contribution. They are most effective when being targeted. If their AC is too high, GMs have a tendency to ignore them and target other members of the party. Some have suggested an AC of level + 15 or 16 to be good for the Paladin. For me, AC in relation to average monster to hit number is less important than the relation with the AC of the folks in my group. Outpacing the Ranger or Cleric's AC by 3 or 4 points doesn't help my party.

[Oncoming_Storm]

Melkiador wrote:

Fey Foundling is so great. The attached flavor tastes bad to me though. Sometimes you want the power without the backstory.

It's flavor text. You can ignore it if you like :)

[Father Dale]

I've seen the two weapon shield bashing paladin tried before, its a good idea, but it takes so many feats to pull off. And paladins don't get any bonus feats except for a couple archetypes maybe. And you have to get dex up more than you otherwise would, because you can just go full plate.

I'd suggest using the shield as an option in combat by using a solid one handed weapon; when you need a boost to AC pull out the shield, but when you just need to dish out damage you can forget the sheild and just two hand your weapon. It doesn't take long before the extra damage from using a greatsword doesn't seem like that much compared to using a longsword, or between a falchion and a scimitar. Its like 1.5 to 2.5 pts per swing. You could focus on using the shield defensively by taking some feats like missile shield or ray shield