I think I may have unintentionally been breaking the rules

[Athos710]

When I made my Investigator, he took Additional Traits as his first feat. One of those traits was Transmuter of Korada (from Champions of Purity). At the time, I believed this to be a fully legal and applicable choice that would affect his extracts. I have searched these boards for any reference to that trait and Alchemist/Investigators and found no results. In the year+ since I started this character, I have begun to have doubts that this is a legitimate build as I got more familiar with the FAQs and various rules and their applications.
So my question is: Is the trait affecting extracts legal?
If no, since retraining of Traits isn't covered in Ult. Campaign, is there anything I can do rather than carry a dead trait?

Trait: Transmuter of Korada:

You learned the secrets of transmutation from a follower of the empyreal lord Korada. Whenever you cast a spell from the transmutation school, its effects manifest at +1 caster level. Additionally, select one of the following transmutation spells: bear’s endurance, bull’s strength, cat’s grace, eagle’s splendor, fox’s cunning, or owl’s wisdom. Once per day when you cast that spell, its duration is doubled. A spell affected by this trait cannot be modified further by the Extend Spell metamagic feat or similar abilities.

From this FAQ, Alchemist are not spellcasters:

Alchemist: Is an alchemist a spellcaster for the purpose of crafting magic items other than potions?
As written, no, alchemists are not spellcasters, and therefore can't select feats such as Craft Wondrous Item.
The design team is aware that this creates some thematic problems with the idea of an alchemist creating golems and so on, and plan to examine this in the future.

Wording on extracts from Alchemists:

An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion—the effects of an extract exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell always affects only the drinking alchemist. An alchemist can draw and drink an extract as a standard action. The alchemist uses his level as the caster level to determine any effect based on caster level.

Only wording in Investigator that specifies caster level:

Like an alchemist, an investigator prepares his spells by mixing ingredients and a tiny fraction of his own magical power into a number of extracts, and then effectively casts the spell by drinking the extract. These extracts have powerful effects, but they are also bound to their creator. Extracts behave like spells in potion form, and as such their effects can be dispelled by dispel magic and similar effects, using the investigator's level as the caster level.

[andreww]

Neither alchemists nor investigators cast spells so I doubt it works.

[The Morphling]

Does not work, unfortunately. Extracts duplicate the effects of spells, but are not spells. If they were, your extracts could be counterspelled, would require concentration checks, et cetera. The wording is indeed a little confusing, but you never "cast" an extract. You simply drink it.

You cannot retrain traits, but if you took Additional Traits to get it, you can retrain the feat. That will allow you to pick a different feat (or pick Additional Traits again, and pick two new traits).

[Rycaut]

since you got the trait via a feat I believe you could retrain that feat (losing both additional traits you got from the feat) using the usual retraining rules - so while you can't usually retrain a trait I believe you could in the case of traits gained from taking a feat (since retraining that feat would mean you no longer have the trait).

[claudekennilol]

Or just swap it out with a legitimate trait as legitimate mistakes do happen. You shouldn't be penalized for a misunderstanding.

[Ascalaphus]

The rule of thumb when you discover an accidental rule-break is rectify it at no penalty to the player. Take a legal trait instead :)

[FLite]

There was a similar thread two weeks back, campaign leadership response was "accidents happen, switch it for a legal trait and move on."

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

It's a legal trait, it just doesn't do what he thought it did.

[Ascalaphus]

Technically, a non-spellcaster could take it, for pretty much no benefit, yeah. So while it was a legal choice, it was chosen based on a big misunderstanding of how it worked.

I don't think anyone will should be upset if you just switch it for a trait that works normally for you.

[Daniel Myhre]

Athos710 wrote:

Alchemist: Is an alchemist a spellcaster for the purpose of crafting magic items other than potions?

As written, no, alchemists are not spellcasters, and therefore can't select feats such as Craft Wondrous Item.
The design team is aware that this creates some thematic problems with the idea of an alchemist creating golems and so on, and plan to examine this in the future.

O.o Then in my non-PFS group one guy was definitely cheating. Not sure if it was intentional or not though. He was playing an alchemist and took Craft Wondrous Items.

GM should have been making him do crafting skill checks to begin with, and paid more attention to restrictions such as the ones for how high a bonus you can give when making rings of protection and amulets of natural armor. But according to this, his character couldn't have taken any crafting feats other then the auto granted brew potions.

[FLite]

Yeah, there is actually a feat that alchemists can take to make them spellcasters so that they will be eligable for crafting feats.

[Daniel Myhre]

FLite wrote:

Yeah, there is actually a feat that alchemists can take to make them spellcasters so that they will be eligable for crafting feats.

I've seen his character sheet. By level 6 he was taking improved initiative, improved natural attack, and power attack. Craft Wondrous Items was his level 6 feat.

[Ascalaphus]

Alchemists don't gain bonus feats, not at level 6 or any other level.

That said, you don't need Craft skills for CWI, Spellcraft is sufficient. Most people only make those items they can make on a Take 10, too. OTOH, the difficulty calculation is a bit arcane so it's easy to make mistakes there and "be more powerful" than you should be.

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

Since it was a home game, he may have had an arrangement with the GM to allow him to take crafting feats as discoveries. Anyway, not relevant to PFS.

[Michael Hallet]

FLite wrote:

Yeah, there is actually a feat that alchemists can take to make them spellcasters so that they will be eligable for crafting feats.

There is? I've never heard of such a feat.

[Pirate Rob]

Master Craftsmnan.
Anybody who meets the requirements can take it.

[Michael Hallet]

Oh. Well that doesn't help me. I was looking for something that let alchemists count as spellcasters so that my preservationist can take advantage of all the summon related feats.

[FLite]

No, not master craftsman.

I got it a little wrong, it is a discovery, not a feat.

Cohorts and Companions wrote:

Spell Knowledge (Cohorts and Companions pg. 13 (Amazon)): Your studies into how all things are interconnected have taught you to cast a very limited number of spells. Select a single spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least 2 levels lower than your highest-level extract known. You can prepare and cast this spell as an arcane spell. Preparing the spell uses up an extract slot 1 level higher than the spell’s level. Your caster level is equal to your alchemist level, and your save DCs and concentration checks are Intelligence-based. You’re considered to have this spell on your spell list for purposes of prerequisites, spell completion items, and spell trigger items.

You may select this discovery more than once. Each time, it grants you access to another spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

Tada, you are now a full caster. Developer commentary

[KageCM]

Michael Hallet wrote:

Oh. Well that doesn't help me. I was looking for something that let alchemists count as spellcasters so that my preservationist can take advantage of all the summon related feats.

There's the discovery Spell Knowledge that might help.

[DesolateHarmony]

Any information on if Investigators can use that Discovery?

[Blakmane]

Daniel Myhre wrote:

I've seen his character sheet. By level 6 he was taking improved initiative, improved natural attack, and power attack. Craft Wondrous Items was his level 6 feat.

Why does he have a 6th level feat?

[FLite]

DesolateHarmony wrote:

Any information on if Investigators can use that Discovery?

I don't see anything indicating they cannot.

[Daniel Myhre]

Blakmane wrote:

Daniel Myhre wrote:

I've seen his character sheet. By level 6 he was taking improved initiative, improved natural attack, and power attack. Craft Wondrous Items was his level 6 feat.

Why does he have a 6th level feat?

Er, mistype. Meant to say 5th level feat. When his character died (got Dominated by a succubus, rest of party either Dominated, Charmed, Fascinated, or had to flee) he was 6th level.

[Ferious Thune]

FLite wrote:

DesolateHarmony wrote:

Any information on if Investigators can use that Discovery?

I don't see anything indicating they cannot.

Investigators are only explicitly granted access to a subset of the Alchemist Discoveries. I think they would have to be explicitly granted access to any new Discoveries as well. As much as I'd like to be able to get a caster level and access to Arcane Strike on my Investigator, I don't think this Discovery is available at the moment.