Gestalt Telekineticist / Rogue

[Rylar]

I'm thinking about building this character for an upcoming game. One player is playing a Summoner/Pyrokineticist another is playing a barbarian/monk (archer switch hitter). I'm somewhat worried that I will be stepping on the other kineticist's toes, but hoping that aether is a different enough roll to not do so.

I think the idea is pretty cool. Kind of like an arcane trickster. I want to be able to sneak around, pick locks, disable traps, and steal things.

How would sneak attack work with kinetic blast and/or blade?

How would you build this character?

[Imbicatus]

Sneak Attack would work just fine with kinetic blast/blade. These are attacks that are made with an attack roll and do hit point damage, so sneak attack applies.

It's harder to get sneak attack on ranged attacks (your blasts) but Aether has at-will invisibility to help with that.

[Philo Pharynx]

Aether and pyro play very differently, and the other class will definitely affect how you play. Aether is about the utility, fire is about damage. He'll have better options for areas and dealing with fire-based creatures (which works well with a summoner), you'll be moving stuff around, flying, and becoming invisible. Damage wise, his composite blasts will be about the same as your sneak attack blasts, but he'll be able to do it by simply not moving.

You'll also have a better defense than he does.

[Rylar]

any opinions on how to build this char? what feats and traits should I look out for?

[Hazrond]

Oh you should see if you can talk your friend into taking Interweave Composite Blast so you can give him an aetheric boost every once in a while

[Rylar]

Man there are a lot of rules for that feat. Seems cool in flavor, but pretty low power (for aether at least).

[Texas Snyper]

Rylar wrote:

any opinions on how to build this char? what feats and traits should I look out for?

I just made a reddit post for my idea for a non gestalt version of the same idea (https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/3mexy1/build_help_critici sm_on_my_telekinetic_rogue/). A 'telekinetic rogue' archtype with a focus on controlling the battlefield and my foes.

[Rylar]

I was unable to find your reddit post.

As a rogue I typically build a two weapon fighter. With the Kineticist added, I don't think I should go that way. Also with Kinetic blade I will do twice the damage (approx) of a normal sneak attack anyway.

This frees up a lot of feats, but what ones should I look in to?

[technarken]

Get Dirty Fighting (From the Dirty Tactics Toolbox). Load up on maneuver feats. Pick up Telekinetic Maneuvers at 8th level. Win reality.

[lemeres]

Depends on whether you are building it for tricks or damage.

The base kineticist is not really synergizing TOO well wit rogue for damage, since it is more based around one or two big hits, which doesn't mesh well with sneak attack. So you will mostly look to capitalize on the invisible and the ability to maneuvers and skill checks at range.

If you play an elemental annihilator, you can get a ton of attacks from devastating blasts, and you can easily switch between TWF adn archery (and heck- why not use regular daggers and arrows?). Of course...that loses the advantage of being aether, since you lose utility talents. I would go earth in that case, for slightly better infusions and more useful defensive talent (DR and temporary hp are usually comparable, but as a rogue, if you have evasion, you already have largely taken care of the main concern that the temp. hp covers that DR doesn't- energy damage; with high reflex, you don't have to worry about fireballs or dragon's breath)

[Shiroi]

A maneuvers set of feats is nice for this, since you can do a lot of nasty things from a distance with no chance of messing up and having it turned on you. But mind your setting, since most animals have a dumb high boost to trip attempts from extra legs, and no items to steal. If you aren't facing humans, the maneuvers might well be useless (or at least only a few will be needed often).

Still, you can do some rude things with giving yourself sneak attacks by dropping rocks behind them (or snaking form to hit them from behind, doing damage and distracting them at the same time, maybe even with sneak damage added on that too).

Overall there's a few routes to go. You can focus on the maneuvers, which gives you a major nerf player in a humanoid setting.

You can go the way of the skill monkey, with bonus points for the at will invisibility making stealth a less necessary skill for you so you can open other skills up higher, and self tk making acrobatics minimal and climb nearly useless. If you do this, I strongly recommend skill unlocks for several abilities like perception.

You can go the way of the damage, which involves sneak attacking with twf. "But how, I only have one tk blade/whip!". Yes, and a dagger on the offhand. Yes it works that way. You can deal full blast damage with sneak attack from one hand, and mostly just sneak attack damage from the other.

You can go the way of the rogue. Let's face it, gestalting the new occult adventures classes feels like it should be all about how to get the most out of the new kineticist. But let's look at all the nasty abilities an unchained rogue can swing with now, and consider that maybe, just maybe, the kineticist is the *addition* to the rogue. A bonus cool thing to keep you from being a one trick pony. You can play a perfectly viable rogue enhanced dramatically with a little telekinetic power, and may well come out ahead of a powerful telekinetic with a little sneak attack damage added in.

[haremlord]

I just made the same thing as an unchained rogue, and he's turned out to be kind of like a street magician (plays at being a fake magician, but hides his real power).

Unchained also gives free finesse, so bonus there :-)

I've seen a lot of people on this board who decry skilled kineticist, but it's a free bonus to sleight of hand that scales with level and stacks with skill focus.

Good luck and have fun!

[Melil13]

Interesting. You can make a pretty strong debuffer with this, using deliberating strike.

Switch hitting is a good choice and kineketist does it naturally.

Wasnt there a barrage option for ur kenetic blasts? Lowers the dmg to base but let's u do a number of attacks? It's a good option with SA, and when u can't get it one big hit pays off more.

Question: twf and kenetic blade (Aether) ... Could you empower one end of a double weapon?

[Weirdo]

Melil13 wrote:

Wasnt there a barrage option for ur kenetic blasts? Lowers the dmg to base but let's u do a number of attacks? It's a good option with SA, and when u can't get it one big hit pays off more.

Flurry of Blasts does let you make several attacks with decreased damage, but it does not let you get sneak attack on each attack. Since it is a SLA providing simultaneous attacks (you have to declare the targets all at once) this FAQ should apply:

FAQ wrote:

Sneak Attack: Can I add sneak attack damage to simultaneous attacks from a spell?

No. For example, scorching ray fires simultaneous rays at one or more targets, and the extra damage is only added once to one ray, chosen by the caster when the spell is cast.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target).

[lemeres]

Weirdo wrote:

Melil13 wrote:

Wasnt there a barrage option for ur kenetic blasts? Lowers the dmg to base but let's u do a number of attacks? It's a good option with SA, and when u can't get it one big hit pays off more.

Flurry of Blasts does let you make several attacks with decreased damage, but it does not let you get sneak attack on each attack. Since it is a SLA providing simultaneous attacks (you have to declare the targets all at once) this FAQ should apply:

And even if it did...unfortunately, flurry of blasts doesn't actually do multiple hits if you hit the same guy.

Extra hits on the same opponent just adds a d6. "extra bonuses and penalties don't apply". So no sneak attack from that.