Just wanted to add myself to the "people convinced to buy Spheres of Power by Malwing" count. One of the best RPG purchases I've made! I have so many new character ideas based on it (and the expanded options), I hardly know what to do with myself.I also picked up spheres of power recently and some of it seems, slightly game breaking to be able to do at will.It's more likely that you've just been conditioned by D&D/PF to overvalue the impact of 'at-will.' [See all the Martial-caster threads for more on this, not gonna go into detail here.]
That being said, there may be a few items that are a bit overpowered. By all means fire up a thread and get feedback on those specific points.
I would definitely bring up a thread on individual points. Conjuration and Weather are the most obviously disruptive spheres as they can produce a lot of meat shields and cause a lot of catastrophic damage respectively, but as a whole its not as widely versatile as numerous spells so you have to choose between power and variety.
I would take a look at this for a general idea of how things work out power-wise.
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Wizards do seem like garbage flavor wise, what wizard can do everything equally well, create LIFE, create new planes of existence, eternal life, etc.I've occasionally considered a return to 3.5's complete banning of prohibited schools, along with specialists only casting their specialty school at full caster level and their other schools at CL -2 [meaning the level they get a new spell level is also the level the old level becomes available for spells outside their specialty.
I like the idea of hemming in wizards to fit a specific idiom (frost mage, fire mage, summoner, necromancer, etc.), but finding a way to do it without simply making certain wizard builds T1 and others T2 or T3 would be difficult.
I like the idea of hemming in wizards to fit a specific idiom (frost mage, fire mage, summoner, necromancer, etc.), but finding a way to do it without simply making certain wizard builds T1 and others T2 or T3 would be difficult.
Many classes already split what the wizard can accomplish into specific themes, kind of like the kineticist being basically any elemental mage, and the summoner.
The problem is that the wizard is all of these at once. They can have several specialties and switch them every day, while also occupying the top end of power. Spontaneous spellcasters are better, since they're locked down in what spells they can take and don't increase in power for every rulebook released, but even they are getting increasing amounts of ways to add new spells. They are better in terms of appropriate power compared to prepared spellcasters, though still too strong.
But basically yes I agree with this statement. Each of the schools of magic can easily occupy an entire class. If nothing else, prepared spellcasters should have to choose their specialization and have to focus on them, to avoid them being not only capable of everything, but best at everything.
Just wanted to add myself to the "people convinced to buy Spheres of Power by Malwing" count. One of the best RPG purchases I've made! I have so many new character ideas based on it (and the expanded options), I hardly know what to do with myself.I also picked up spheres of power recently and some of it seems, slightly game breaking to be able to do at will.It's more likely that you've just been conditioned by D&D/PF to overvalue the impact of 'at-will.' [See all the Martial-caster threads for more on this, not gonna go into detail here.]
That being said, there may be a few items that are a bit overpowered. By all means fire up a thread and get feedback on those specific points.
Depends on the at will ability.
A kineticist's blasts? Yeah, those are kinda balanced around the idea that a dedicated archer could get similar numbers (although it is rather mobile...but faces problems with miss chances). I can see that being at will.
But some spells are kinda broken if you can do them infinitely. I am not familiar with spheres of power, but could you imagine if things like emergency force sphere or most forms of teleportation was at will?
Now, you can argue that wizards have might enough spell slots that they can practically do it at will anyway in normal encounter/day design... well... this is a thread arguing against allowing wizards into play after all. That one doesn't quite hold up since it is a complaint.
Just wanted to add myself to the "people convinced to buy Spheres of Power by Malwing" count. One of the best RPG purchases I've made! I have so many new character ideas based on it (and the expanded options), I hardly know what to do with myself.I also picked up spheres of power recently and some of it seems, slightly game breaking to be able to do at will.It's more likely that you've just been conditioned by D&D/PF to overvalue the impact of 'at-will.' [See all the Martial-caster threads for more on this, not gonna go into detail here.]
That being said, there may be a few items that are a bit overpowered. By all means fire up a thread and get feedback on those specific points.
Depends on the at will ability.
A kineticist's blasts? Yeah, those are kinda balanced around the idea that a dedicated archer could get similar numbers (although it is rather mobile...but faces problems with miss chances). I can see that being at will.
But some spells are kinda broken if you can do them infinitely. I am not familiar with spheres of power, but could you imagine if things like emergency force sphere or most forms of teleportation was at will?
Now, you can argue that wizards have might enough spell slots that they can practically do it at will anyway in normal encounter/day design... well... this is a thread arguing against allowing wizards into play after all. That one doesn't quite hold up since it is a complaint.
There is a sphere that gives a short range at-will teleporting (Warp) but honestly its not very broken considering that its fairly limited unless you specialize in it (giving up other things you could be doing.) I have seen a low caster teleporting with it to be a more mobile martial but the Alteration sphere works out better for mobility without breaking up your action economy.
Some of the more broken things that happen is more like Conjuration, which effectively gives you an eidolon, where you can use the sphere and two talents you get early on for effectively 3 eidolons that last all day and do absolutely nothing. Eventually you can spam the battlefield with eidolons that each fire a d6 blast and be meat shields but its at the expense of doing literally nothing else. I theoried out a guy that had an army of exploding summons just for kicks. Its hilarious but not particularly useful.
The game becomes less fun, less representative of works of the high fantasy genre, and a lot of players will stop playing.
While TarkXT has covered the Arcane caster dissonance between Fantasy fiction and roleplaying I can't see anyone mentioning differences between Divine types in fiction and RPG systems. If you think this is off-topic then feel free to skip this post.
I literally can't think of any non-RPG examples where a Divine caster has the scope that they do in Pathfinder/D&D. Typically religious figures in myth and fiction can use their power in one or two ways; they could be a healer, or a seer, or manifest their deity's power in battle, but normally only one of these things.
It only seems to be Prophet/Messanaic figures that are equivalent to PF/D&D 9th level Divines - a typical mid-level Cleric can pull off pretty much any Miracle attributed to Jesus, Mohammed or Buddha. Biblical examples: Enhance Water at level 1, Water Walk and Create Food and Water at spell level 3, Raise Dead at spell level 5. So by Cleric Level 9 you're up there with the big boys. Add in Dismissal for exorcisms and Remove Disease, Neutralise Poison, Break Enchantment etc and the only things you're missing are Control Weather at spell level 7 and Heal at 6.
This is not to offend or slight anyone, merely to point out that current RPG Divine casters don't fit well with established Fantasy figures or tropes outside RPG-related material.
Teleportation is usually handled by a object or requires intense concentration...Teleportation in Steven Brust's Dragaera books has always felt pretty close to D&D teleportation to me.
There's a reason for that: They were based on a 1st Ed AD&D campaign that he was a player in (and Vlad is based on his human assassin character).
Do I have to Index this thread? Genuinely unsure.
Eh, I'm just being lazy. Adding now!
I just went through your collection yesterday, kobold, and was wondering why I didn't see this thread on there.
I fell a bit behind. You can post on the Index if you think there's a thread missing, though!
Never in my wildest dreams did I expect martial-caster disparity would be such a goldmine, never I say!
Oh, no dragons either since they cast as sorcerers.
This is definitely not D&D anymore.
Eh, they get by fine without it.
Give em eldritch scion casting.
Sides, it's not d&d.
I'd just leave dragons as the one thing with 9th level spells. Put the fear of GM in those cocky players' hearts.
;P
Oh, no dragons either since they cast as sorcerers.
This is definitely not D&D anymore.
A. Why do people keep going on about the BBEGs who suddenly lack magic. The point of this was mostly removing the power from players since they tend to break the campaign at higher levels.
B. They are usually not the best sorcerers (many cast in different manners, mind you), since they often cast like a caster at much lower hd than they actually are (just an example- great wyrm gold dragons have 30 hd and only cast like level 19 sorcerers). So it is much easier to avoid getting past 6th level spells with them than you would imagine.
C. I have personally wondered whether you could switch the spell casting out for similarly leveled kineticist abilities. It has a much nicer feel of making them forces of nature working with raw magical power. It can also be nicer for taking on armies: warzones are the place where that 'all day caster' thing comes in; much more obvious when you are shooting 20d6 AoE explosions at will than when you talk about more martial characters. When you actually examine it closely...while it is about par in the concentrated battles of adventurers, it is monstrous in the larger scope of long term large scale combat. And generally, it can feel more thematic than the random list of spells that are often given to dragons. Works a lot better to complement the whole breath thing.
And of course, you can still have plenty of kowtowed minions that could use the more typical spellcasting
Oh, no dragons either since they cast as sorcerers.
This is definitely not D&D anymore.
A. Why do people keep going on about the BBEGs who suddenly lack magic. The point of this was mostly removing the power from players since they tend to break the campaign at higher levels.
Cause I said entirely. As if everyone.
Though if it's just SLA's left that could be construed as different.
Oh, no dragons either since they cast as sorcerers.
This is definitely not D&D anymore.
A. Why do people keep going on about the BBEGs who suddenly lack magic. The point of this was mostly removing the power from players since they tend to break the campaign at higher levels.
Cause I said entirely. As if everyone.
Though if it's just SLA's left that could be construed as different.
Oh, entirely entirely.
Still...dragons are dragons. Even if you go lower magic, having inhuman beings of ,assive magical power strutting about would not be as unusual as only barring the players from being wizards while enemy humanoids could still take the class.
I mentioned this earlier but I think high level spells seem like things that would take a lot of time, sacrifice and study if those abilities were in other fiction. I can see high level spells being incantations or rituals that are more like artifacts, powerful things where its up to the GM to hand out rather than something casters are entitled to that they can freely cherry pick and pull off as a standard action.
I mean, look at resurrection. That's normally a full on quest to pull off or something that can happen once a year by collecting mcguffins, not some thing you can pull off every day.
Swords and Wizardry suggested that, actually—I think everything from "Raise Dead" up was recommended as magic that could only be achieved through questing and/or research.
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Parties with nothing but 6th level casters are often considered the best groups, as they're able to face every challenge and thrive, at all levels.
Having a party of no casters is helpless at mid and high levels. A party of 4th level casters is helpless at the highest levels. A party of 9th casters *might* be helpless at the lowest (my playtest of 4 wizards through Rise of the Runelords is still underway), except Druids which dominate at all levels. But 6th level casters? Those are the sweet spot that thrive in all situations and all levels.
So, a good example party might be (based off of the old 4 member assumptions):
Paladin (fairly simple sub for fighter; some healing spells), Bard (rogue replacement- a bit of wizard with buff/charm stuff), Warpriest (they get cleric spells...just not as many), and maybe an alchemist (since bombs can have a lot of the battlefield control stuff)
I think this would be an example of a party that could do well without 9th leveled caster, even if the enemies don't have a similar restriction.
From running Serpent's Skull with friends (yeah, not a PFS group) we had the following group initially: Sorcerer (me, fire spells primarily), Alchemist, Ranger, and added a bard after a few sessions. And honestly? The alchemist was the one who dominated most encounters. Those bombs start out borderline overpowered at level 1. And it just kept getting worse. Once he started mutating himself regularly the rest of the party frequently got trapped behind him, unable to reach the enemies... let alone see them.
Yeah we recently had a near total party wipe, but that was mostly due to low will saves vs high DC charm effects taking half the party out of the battle before it even started... Then the alchemist getting told to defend the being that was beating us like a drum.
By comparison a kinetisist is no where near as broken. Most of it's abilities are single target, not aoe with the main target getting no save at all. That and a kinetisist has to burn their own health to use their best abilities.
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Like, I've almost never read or watched a Wizard who refused to pick up a sword and swing that sumb@~$+.
The old Pool of Radiance novel for 2nd edition AD&D. One of the main characters is a wizard who accidentally wastes a use of her inherited ring of 3 wishes wishes herself to be really strong. Think going from 8 Strength to 18 strength. From some of the descriptions, I think that was her new strength score. She spends 99% of the book spamming her staff of lightning/fireball. The other 1% she uses the final wish on her ring (first use took her to where her master died).
Okay, so she was a 1st level wizard with a really high level magic staff that contained two spells and unlimited charges of both. She never once tried to melee. It was always fireballs or lightning bolts from the staff. Actually, don't think she cast any spells herself either. So maybe a 0 level wizard (still in training with no spells learned besides cantrip)
I think I might give this concept a shot.
I got my hands on Sphere's of Power so I'm going to make some campaign notes work a setting out and run with it on the boards.