DMDM's Guide to the Diabolist -- Autumn 2015 edition


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Plundered Power

Thaumataurgic Circle: Lack of alignment descriptors allow for; a) no annoying alignment changes from spellcasting rules. B) all divine casters can use it. As a prepared/known spell it offers greater versatility than the core circle spells. Lastly the ability to select a subtypes of creatures protects you from non aligned creatures like elementals

Conditional Spell- yes, these are very limited. Have been looking into it but beyond heal, resurrection/breath of life, and temporary Resurrection there aren't to many uses. It does give a way to voluntarily release baleful polymoprh. A wand of conditional favor is quite cheap


As for traits, are Campaign Traits acceptable?

Because if so, Hell's Vengeance has a very nice trait called Apprentice Devilbinder which offers some very nice stuff, such as a bonus to CHA rolls against devils, and a discount with devils called with Planar Ally.


So, the Book of the Damned came out a few weeks ago, and it had a new version of the Diabolist. Going forward, this will be the "official" version and the one that's accepted for PFS play.

Not gonna lie: I don't much care for this new version. I think Paizo tried to fix something that wasn't broken, and ended up with a PrC that's less interesting and less fun. That said, I now have to think about whether I want to update the Guide. A lot of it -- at least 75% -- is still relevant. But enough has changed that a person looking at the new Diabolist (which has already replaced the old one in the online SRDs) would be confused. I don't want anyone to be confused! Other hand, I'm not enthusiastic about spending half a day rewriting my Guide for an "upgraded" PrC that... does not rock my world.

Mulling this over. Meanwhile, for fans of the Guide, FYI: there's a new version of the Diabolist.

Doug M.

Liberty's Edge

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I'm very glad I got to sign my diabolist's soul away before book of the damned came out - The imp was something truly unique, and it's tragic that it was lost with the new rules.

This guide gave me a lot of inspiration, in any case. Whatever you do, I would keep some of the stuff for the older variant to encourage people to give it a look.


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The Dandy Lion wrote:
I'm very glad I got to sign my diabolist's soul away before book of the damned came out - The imp was something truly unique, and it's tragic that it was lost with the new rules.

The imp companion really was pretty special. He served Hell, not you. That was actually way more flavorful than a familiar IMO.

Quote:
This guide gave me a lot of inspiration, in any case.

Aw shucks. Well, people like you are who I wrote it for.

Doug M.


I know I'd like it if you still kept the old guide around, for those of us fortunate enough to have GMs that still allow the old Diabolist. Also, you mentioned that Spell Perfection

Quote:
Eh. If you're going to invest in Spell Perfection... this seems more of a theorycrafting gambit than something a PC would actually do. The difference between a 20 HD limit and a 22 HD limit is not actually all that great. 20 HD gives you the pit fiend and, honestly, what more do you want?

There's actually a few reasons that SP might be worth it on Greater Planar Binding. The most notable of these is the fact it should also double your CHA checks made during the casting/negotiating of the spell- while that might only net you a +1-2 most of the time, if you're playing Way of the Wicked (and can use its feats), there's that one (forget the name) that grants a +4 bonus to your CHA checks. While it's admittedly not 1st party as you prefer, the chance for a _8 bonus to your checks is nothing to scoff at. As a bonus, you can Call 22 HD outsiders.


Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Abjurant Salt (600 gp/dose) – This stuff is amazing: under the RAW, no called or summoned creature can cross a line or circle made of it. It’s an open question whether teleportation is allowed (I’d say no) but even so, this is really a must-have item. Buy it in bulk and use it liberally. Of course, once your DM knows it exists, he’ll probably use it against you at some point. But that’s only fair.

Just wanted to mention: Once your DM starts using this against you, remember to memorize Gust of Wind.

Saved my character's life last session!


Quote:

Just wanted to mention: Once your DM starts using this against you, remember to memorize Gust of Wind.

Saved my character's life last session!

It's nice to know that people are still interested!

For some reason, that reminds me: I've been meaning to link to my Guide To My Guides. So, here are all the DMDM Guides, collected in one place. They include a bunch of stuff that should be interesting to anyone playing a character who summons, binds, Gates, or just does planar stuff generally, along with some odds and ends like a Guide to Mesmerist Stares.

It'll all be obsolete in the not too distant future -- but in the meantime, if you want to play a caster who summons devils, wears black and red, and gloats a lot, this one's for you.

Cheers,

Doug M.


To be honest, the Diabolist (preferbly the original version) is about the most interesting concept i Pathfinder.

So yeah, still interested. :D


On a somewhat less cheerful note, here's 1000 or so words from me on How Paizo Broke the Diabolist. With the benefit of a year or so of hindsight, I would say... this still holds up pretty well, actually. The Diabolist was a fun, balanced PrC that wasn't broken and didn't need to be "fixed"; the new version, while not awful, is both mechanically weaker and less fun to play. Again, all about to be obsolete, but FWIW.

It does seem like some people have had fun with this Guide over the years since I posted the first version... which, holy socks, was in January 2014. Nearly five years ago!

So, really, I can't complain too hard. This Guide had a pretty good run.

Doug M.


Pure thread-necromancy, but:

The Inward-Facing Circle, a book from Occult Mysteries (p. 60).
Worth/Price is given as 2255 gp. The last 36 pages gives a +5 Circumstancebonus to opposed charisma check to negotiate with a devil after casting Planar Binding or a similar spell (ie Lesser and Greater ditto). Worth it.


Oh, it's not just that. The IFC gives you:

-- +2 circumstance bonus on Knowledge (planes] checks concerning devils
-- a focus to use plane shift to travel to a specific layer of hell
-- a spell book containing greater planar binding, planar binding, lesser planar binding, agonize, dimensional anchor, sacrifice, magic circle against evil, communal protection from evil
-- the option to create a permanent circle that isn't broken by footsteps or a gust of wind; and,
-- a +5 bonus on charisma checks against called devils

Super super useful, and a steal at the price. And several of the benefits scale with level -- that +5 and +2 will always be useful, and the "travel to a specific layer" will be good until you can cast Gate. But if you're in Golarion, it's canon that the book is associated with House Thrune. So, getting your hands on a copy should be a mini-quest in its own right.

Doug M.


Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
But if you're in Golarion, it's canon that the book is associated with House Thrune. So, getting your hands on a copy should be a mini-quest in its own right.

Very true, but it's very much not a unique book (from my reading anyway) and no magical abilities are needed to copy it - just patience.

And if you're a Diabolist anyway, you might already have the right sort of contacts. Depending on your DM, obviously.


It's not a unique book, but the association with Thrune suggests that the penalties for copyright violation might be... interesting.

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