Hi -
Rime spell states:
Quote: The frost of your cold spell clings to the target, impeding it for a short time. A rime spell causes creatures that takes cold damage from the spell to become entangled for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell. Dazing spell states:
Quote: You can modify a spell to daze a creature damaged by the spell. When a creature takes damage from this spell, they become dazed for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw, a successful save negates the daze effect. If the spell does not allow a save, the target can make a Will save to negate the daze effect. If the spell effect also causes the creature to become dazed, the duration of this metamagic effect is added to the duration of the spell. How do these work with a spell like Acid Arrow where the spells deals 2d4 damage every round, depending on the level of the caster?
Would it extend the time of entanglement for the Rime Spell? So, if the damage was over two rounds, would the enemy be entangled for 3 rounds? Or just 2?
Same question with Daze - would it require a save every round that damage occurs or be dazed for two rounds?
Thanks!
KT
It doesn't change how it functions.
Dazing Acid Arrow would have you save once against the daze affect. If you failed the save you would be dazed for 2 rounds. Assuming that acid arrow did cold damage instead of acid, a Rime Acid Acid would cause the target to become entangled for 2 rounds.
Devil's Advocate
Dazing Spell Text wrote: When a creature takes damage from this spell, they become dazed for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell. Reinterpreting that as not forcing a new save for a duration reset when the target takes damage again from the same spell looks like 'changing how the feat functions' to me.
Feat doesn't say it happens more than once. You take damage once, the effect of the feat happens, and is then done.
We both know dazing is broken as hell in the first place, do you really want to see something that is worse than a dazing persistent fireball?
I didn't necessarily say I want to see it, I was explicitly reading the text of the feat.
Dazing says it applies when a creatures takes damage from a spell. If you take damage multiple times, say over multiple rounds, then you have to make multiple saves. The duration wont stack but it will reset.
Yes dazing is idiotically overpowered.
It's interesting because, despite the power-level of the feat, I can read and interpret it both ways and, after reading the responses, still am not sure if the effect, whether that's a daze or an entangle, happen on the initial round the spell causes damage and ONLY the initial round, OR:
If the spell causes damage for, let's say, two rounds, then does that present a new opportunity for the effect to happen?
Still not clear to me which way it would work.
You need to do more then change the acid damage from acid arrow to qualify for rime spell.Rime spell requires a cold descriptor. Even using elemental spell (cold) changes acid arrow damage to cold, but will not give the cold descriptor that allows rime spell to be applied to acid arrow. Like a sorcerer bloodline.
kyrt-ryder wrote: Devil's Advocate
Dazing Spell Text wrote: When a creature takes damage from this spell, they become dazed for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell. Reinterpreting that as not forcing a new save for a duration reset when the target takes damage again from the same spell looks like 'changing how the feat functions' to me.
PRD-Acid arrow wrote:
Effect one arrow of acid
....
For every three caster levels you possess, the acid, unless neutralized, lasts for another round (to a maximum of 6 additional rounds at 18th level), dealing another 2d4 points of damage in each round.
After the round in which it is cast it isn't the spell that do the damage, it is its effect.
It is even be possible to argue that the spell don't do any damage at all, it simply conjure a actual object (the arrow of acid) that last a fixed time. The the object do the damage.
Let's make a different example: if someone cast Dazing Summon monster I, the summoned creature attacks get the dazing effect?
Dazing and conjurations don't mix well.
I thought that a dazing grease spell using a vial of acid as a power component was a thing. Like, a thing you could do.
(take 1 point of acid damage, get dazed, then slip and fall before you get out of the acidic grease? hehehe...)
It's not a thing?
Diego Rossi wrote: kyrt-ryder wrote: Devil's Advocate
Dazing Spell Text wrote: When a creature takes damage from this spell, they become dazed for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell. Reinterpreting that as not forcing a new save for a duration reset when the target takes damage again from the same spell looks like 'changing how the feat functions' to me.
PRD-Acid arrow wrote:
Effect one arrow of acid
....
For every three caster levels you possess, the acid, unless neutralized, lasts for another round (to a maximum of 6 additional rounds at 18th level), dealing another 2d4 points of damage in each round.
After the round in which it is cast it isn't the spell that do the damage, it is its effect.
It is even be possible to argue that the spell don't do any damage at all, it simply conjure a actual object (the arrow of acid) that last a fixed time. The the object do the damage.
Let's make a different example: if someone cast Dazing Summon monster I, the summoned creature attacks get the dazing effect?
Dazing and conjurations don't mix well. The summon monster analogy is the same as those spells that produce an object that attacks for you [or animate dead.]
The key distinguishing point is that something other than the caster is making independent attacks.
Acid Arrow [or a blast modified by the Lingering Spell Metamagic Feat] is a spell that simply deals damage repeatedly. It does not attack.
What about Flaming Sphere? Each round a target must make a new save. It is not a persistent damage spell, but a caster can make multiple attacks with it.
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