Raise Dead and Permanency

[Seravix]

If a character has magic fang with permanency dies. Do you think the spell would still be working if he was raised dead? What if the body had been destroyed and had to be reconstructed using resurrection or true resurrection.

thanks guys in advance!

Edit: If you said no to all of the above, what about Breath of life?

[Val'bryn2]

I'ld say it would persist through Raise Dead and Breath of Life, I'm a little iffy on Resurrection or True Resurrection, as the "item" was sundered. I'ld probably allow it, but it wouldn't persist through clones or the like.

[Guru-Meditation]

Normal Death --> gone.

A dead body is not a legal target for Magic Fang, therefor the spell ends.

same with Breath of Life, as it targets "recently slain" (aka dead) creatures to revive.

[Val'bryn2]

Don't you only check target once you first cast the spell, though? I don't think checking target is an ongoing process, it just says "is this something I can affect? Yes/no. Okay then."

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

I'd say this is where DM judgment comes in - and they'd damn well better have a good grasp of the campaign setting's metaphysics.

[Kchaka]

I'd just like to say we should review not only this, but all the rules in the game to see how they are affected by pregnancy.

[CampinCarl9127]

Kchaka wrote:

I'd just like to say we should review not only this, but all the rules in the game to see how they are affected by pregnancy.

Cast sanctuary twice; once on the mother, once on the child. Make two will saves to attack her!

[ZZTRaider]

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

Kchaka wrote:

I'd just like to say we should review not only this, but all the rules in the game to see how they are affected by pregnancy.

Cast sanctuary twice; once on the mother, once on the child. Make two will saves to attack her!

That may be difficult, since Sanctuary is a touch spell.

[Claxon]

I think the answer to all of them is no, but I'd probably make an exception for breath of life.

[Trimalchio]

Seems like GM choice. I'd lean towards no but also be inclined to make an exception for breath of life or anything similar that occurs within combat rounds.

A similar question would be permanency and magic jar, does the permanency travel with the 'soul' or stays on the body? I'd try to be consistent so if permanency stayed with the body then I'd allow permanency to persist as long as the body is intact.

Depending on how you go death becomes a significant wealth hit, especially for full casters, be aware this alone could drop a PC down a CR or two.

[Val'bryn2]

It would not go with the soul, you cast it on the body, which is why I say it stays as long as the body is mostly intact.

[kyrt-ryder]

AFAIK spells don't end when their target is no longer valid, they simply no longer provide their effects but their duration is still ticking and their function is still active if the target becomes valid again before the duration ends [in this case forever.]

[Skylancer4]

I have yet to see any published material regarding a creature that had "perma-spells" still active after being returned to life by Paizo.

[kyrt-ryder]

Who asked about published material regarding that? Do you need Paizo to spell out every tiny interaction of rules for you?

Now if you could find a place that notes spells are actually dispelled by their target becoming non-valid, then you'd have something.

[Skylancer4]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Who asked about published material regarding that? Do you need Paizo to spell out every tiny interaction of rules for you?

Now if you could find a place that notes spells are actually dispelled by their target becoming non-valid, then you'd have something.

It makes "it doesn't work" as good of an opinion as yours, in absence of actual rules.

[kyrt-ryder]

Of course it doesn't work, the target is no longer valid.

But where do the rules state that the spell is gone rather than just temporarily non-functional?

[Shiroi]

Someone look up

Spoiler:

Rasputin, he dies and comes back a few times yeah? Do buffs on him stay active past his first death or does he need to rebuff every time he sits up again?

[Seravix]

Here is another question for those that say no to all forms of raise dead, stating that the body is no longer a legal target.

As you are ruling that the body is no longer a legal target, does that mean you agree that curse would fall off the body once it dies and the character is resurrected? Such curses as bestow curse, baneful polymorph or maybe even lycanthropy?

[Trimalchio]

It is explicit that ability damage from say poison remains even after being raised. I believe most polymorphs are explicit that you return to your original form on death.

[Claxon]

Seravix wrote:

Here is another question for those that say no to all forms of raise dead, stating that the body is no longer a legal target.

As you are ruling that the body is no longer a legal target, does that mean you agree that curse would fall off the body once it dies and the character is resurrected? Such curses as bestow curse, baneful polymorph or maybe even lycanthropy?

Bestow Curse and Baleful Polymorph I would agree that death would end those effects, and you could be resurrected without them.

Lycanthropy is not a spell, and besides being a curse is also a disease. So I am unsure of how it should be treated. But I also don't see it as the same category as the other effects and don't think the answer to this one need be the same as the other.

[LazarX]

Seravix wrote:

Here is another question for those that say no to all forms of raise dead, stating that the body is no longer a legal target.

As you are ruling that the body is no longer a legal target, does that mean you agree that curse would fall off the body once it dies and the character is resurrected? Such curses as bestow curse, baneful polymorph or maybe even lycanthropy?

Not relevant to the original question. I would say that in all cases it's a GM call and there is no "right" answer mandated by rules.

[CampinCarl9127]

ZZTRaider wrote:

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

Kchaka wrote:

I'd just like to say we should review not only this, but all the rules in the game to see how they are affected by pregnancy.

Cast sanctuary twice; once on the mother, once on the child. Make two will saves to attack her!

That may be difficult, since Sanctuary is a touch spell.

Well I can think of a few ways to get around that, but for the sake of the children I shall concede to your point :P

[Tindalen]

I do not know of a RAW basis, but I have always seen, played, GMed that any effect with a duration on a target that becomes a non-legal target ends. Baleful polymorph has a duration permanent and as such would end on death. Polymorph any object Has a permanent duration, or less, but can target objects so it would stay for its duration. Any instantaneous magical effect would persist through death or change to a non-legal target.