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You know silverhair, just bumping the thread doesn't do much if there is no link to the Ks on this page - perhaps bumping the thread with a link might help...
Personally I see nothing here to interest me, and the price point is set so high even if. I was interested I wouldn't back it.
I like Vikings, but this seems so standard-fare to me I can't understand folks excitement. I get that this is by FGG, but that really means nothing to me either, having none of their products nor particularly ever been interested in them.
So, I would surmise that this is aimed more at FGG fans than new customers suh as myself, who see very little to excite them or entice them into backing the project.
Excite me. Entice me. The "Reasons to back" thread has only impressed upon me that this is uninteresting to me.
I found the first few adventures (that are included in this, as I understand it) to be very much nonstandard-fare. Often with "Vikings!" or "Pirates!" or "Oriental!" or...any number of other such 'themed' adventures, they don't actually feel very different to me. The differences seem more cosmetic.
One of the strengths of FGG products (imo) is their ability to capture theme and mood. Razor Coast, Cyclopean Depths and the earlier Northlands modules all manage to feel like something very different from standard fantasy fare, to me - as opposed to just an ordinary fantasy adventure where the enemies happen to sail in longships and have beards and axes.
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I would add that the other thing about FGG products is the old school feel. I have been running Rappan Athuk, and Stoneheart Valley for about a year, and these are adventure of exploration. There is no world ending motivation to complete something right away (not that there may not be consequences for not completing something). For me the PCs are able to explore what interests them. And there are compelling things to explore. My PCs have more things to explore than they will likely ever be able to do.
I have not read the first adventures of the Northlands that were previously published but everything I have read from FGG has been amazing.
My suggestion to anyone who has not been introduced to FGG products. Buy the PDF of one of the currently published adventures - The Lost City of Barakus, Rappan Athuk, Slumbering Tsar, or the Sword of Air. If reading one of those adventures does not get you excited about FGG then let them go, but I cannot imagine that. Or grab the first couple of the Northlands tales in PDF and read those.
@Greg - thanks, I. didn't find your post confrontational in the least. Or overlong. :)
I would argue that you could provide more actual examples of: art, statblocks, mechanics (such as the bearsarker you provided on the other thread) a few sample PDFs - I actually consider you guys one of the bigger 3PPs, and have seen much smaller operations provide more pre-completion content to entice potential backers.
@Steve - thanks for that. I did see your post characterising this as non-standard, and really wondered why. I am intrigued by how the traditional Viking AP is made non-standard - is it the plotting? Level of detail of NPC motivations? Maps?
@Shem - I hear this a lot. As someone who was around in the mid-late old school (started playing with B2 in @'81 I support such an approach, but how does it specifically operate here in the Northland Saga? Creatures and encounters not being CR appropriate? Gygaxian detail in location descriptions? Seemingly random or Inappropriate sprinkling of foes on the map (;p)?
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Bill and Matt talking about what "1st Edition Feel" means to Frog God Games and Necromancer Games.
Oh and tables... if you like tables there are always enough to destroy my wrists during layout. <grin>
@Steve - thanks for that. I did see your post characterising this as non-standard, and really wondered why. I am intrigued by how the traditional Viking AP is made non-standard - is it the plotting? Level of detail of NPC motivations? Maps?
We may be talking at cross purposes. I don't have any experience with a traditional Viking AP. What I meant was that FGG modules are good at conveying a totally different feel - so I expect this one will feel like a viking adventure, not a traditional fantasy adventure with viking NPCs and villains.
I fully expect it to be a standard AP. I was referring to the setting as nonstandard, rather than the adventure design.
Thanks Chuck!
I actually do love me some random tables a la the 1e PH, DMG, MM, Appendixes et al...
And here's a handy link:
@Steve - understood. I however do not consider Viking/Scandinavian fantasy as non-standard at all. Seems to be the bread and butter of the genre personally, and I'm happy with that.
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What's an example of a "traditional viking adventure" do you think? They seem pretty rare to me.
PS - I just gifted you the first instalment PDF. I figured showing is easier than explaining. ;)
What's an example of a "traditional viking adventure" do you think? They seem pretty rare to me.
From Kobold Press
In Midgard Tales - "On the Fourth Day We Kill Them All" by EJ "Ted" Reed - standoffs between Viking rival clans, frozen warriors in a canted tower, fjord boat encounter, festival celebration games and more Vikings than you could swing an apocryphal horned helmet at... For 3rd level characters if I remember rightly.
As a separate release "The Raven's Call" by Wolfgang Baur - less traditional and more fantastic Northern motifs. An excellent low level adventure.
I'm sure other 3PP could pipe up with more Viking/Northern/Scandiq stuff...
PS - I just gifted you the first instalment PDF. I figured showing is easier than explaining. ;)
Thanks so much Steve - I'll give it a look!
Might be good for some one to post this on the d20 forum on RPG.net. I'm somewhere on hols so not able to do that
Time to bring this back to the top. There is a link just a few above this post. There is also one in the Store Blog.
It's kind of like this:
Take the Elder Eddas.
Now put something very horrible that happened in the past, creeping back into the world of the Elder Eddas.
Sprinkle with just a hint of Robert E. Howard.
Add a possibly-contested succession to the throne to a long-standing feud ... juuuuuust until you're at the very brink of a three-sided war.
Add monsters.
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@Shem - I hear this a lot. As someone who was around in the mid-late old school (started playing with B2 in @'81 I support such an approach, but how does it specifically operate here in the Northland Saga? Creatures and encounters not being CR appropriate? Gygaxian detail in location descriptions? Seemingly random or Inappropriate sprinkling of foes on the map (;p)?
That is also when I began to play and my first module was also B2. I totally get it.
I have not read any of the Northland Saga even though I have the modules that were put out previously, I have much more that I have been ready and it keeps me busy.
But What I have read and run, has been amazing. One of the things I love about Rappan Athuk (and other things I have read) is that players have to be prepared to run. Most modern game design is created in a way that most encounters can be handled by a party of four. I usually have a party of six and there have been several player deaths. Even when the party had warning (one of my favorite levels), the party did bail on that level but mostly put themselves in more trouble by fleeing into an underground river. They came out a level lower.
It is not written like the Palace of the Silver Princess though where a random amount of creatures are thrown together to make encounters. There is more conscious placement of encounters in the products I believe.
But a party can come into an area where the CRs are under powered for the party, and then come into an area where the CRs are higher than the party should be able to handle, although my party has done a good job handling most of them.
I think the thing is that Bill was writing and running the adventures that make up a lot of the larger books when first edition was the game that was out. He still writes the way he did back then and it get converted by Greg, and maybe others. Matt also writes for the early editions of the game.
I think if you like the first edition game, you will likely like this writing. And you can buy them in Swords and Wizardy (original D&D), and/or Pathfinder. I buy both because I have a Pathfinder group, and my son loves to play first edition. So, I can run things in both editions.
Currently, I like the FGG products even better than Paizo's work, and I think Paizo does a great job. I have run several adventure paths beginning with Runelords.
I am choosy about 3PP products. I will buy from the Kobolds (and have bought most of their stuff), and I have bought a few things from Legendary Games partly because Clark was involved with Necromancer Games (the prior incarnation of FGG).
Over the top.
Broke the $40,000 barrier. Now just need about $20,000 for the goal, and another $40,000 for all the stretch goals. Thanks to everyone who has pledged, and keep spreading the word.
Here is the Kickstarter page.
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Here are the write-ups for the previously released adventures. Maybe the PDFs for these could be the FGG "deal of the day" to let people try one of them at the discount to get a better feel for these adventures?
1 - Vengeance of the Long Serpent
Pull on your hauberk, ready your shield, and take up your axe, the tide is moving out and it is time to set sail on a voyage of adventure. In Vengeance of the Long Serpent the heroes sail north into a land of murder, savagery, and madness to face a reawakened dark god and his deadly cult. Estimated page count: 24 Released in separate editions for both Swords and Wizardry and Pathfinder.
2 - Beyond the Wailing Mountains
The story begun in Vengeance of the Long Serpent continues. The heroes have defeated the Children of Althunak, but the fell god's evil fane survives. Strange beasts, dark magics, and unholy cold await in the lands Beyond the Wailing Mountains.
3 - The Death Curse of Sven Oakenfist
In the Northlands the laws of hospitality are absolute, to violate them is to seek dishonor or even death. What then must our heroes do when their host asks them to fulfill his dying wish, to face down the wight of the legendary viking Sven Oakenfist and convince him to lift a curse laid with his own last breath?
4 - Blood on the Snow
The country of Estenfird is in flames. Wild men and beasts have descended in hordes from the mountains bringing fire and destruction into the forested lands below. The hirths of the North have been called forth to defense, but with the heavy snows of winter delaying travel will their arrival be in time to save this frontier realm? Even the heroic Protector of Estenfird, Hengrid Donarsdottir, is hard pressed and has called upon all heroes to come to their aid. It is time to don arms and armor and brave the winter’s wrath to come to the defense of Estenfird in its hour of need.
To whoever posted on Enworld, thank you.
Morrus was the one who posted, the site owner. That's why it hit front page, which is nice.
To the top again.
I'm wondering if a FGG AMA might be in order. That could drum up a lot of interest.
Just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks.
America Music Award?
I think they mean "Ask Me Anything" - I believe it's a Reddit thing.
<laugh> Yeah. I just figured it out.
Man, I really want that leather copy but I don't think I'll have the monies... Maybe FGG needs some help around the office?
Will there be a bestiary in Northlands? If so how many new monsters? Will they be illustrated?
There's a chapter of new monsters; I don't recall the exact number of them in the PFRPG version. Taking a brief swing through the art notes in the chapter, I think they are all illustrated. Greg can probably give a more specific answer.
Don't want this to slip off the page. So back to the top.
Once more.
It's fine to let the thread move down if it moves down, Herald Frog, there are other companies and topics that ought to get their fair share of the front page. :)
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And for ease from the preview thread for the Northlands Saga...
The Northlands Saga Complete (KS)
Back in 2010 we published a series of four small adventures by author Kenneth Spencer that we called the Northlands Saga (NS1-4). Ken is a writer but also studied archaeology and had a specialization in Norse archaeology. So when he approached me about the series to me at Gen Con the previous year, it included a organized proposal complete with a synopsis on Norse culture and customs. He wanted to write viking adventures that were more than just normal adventures but with guys wearing horned helmets (of course they didn't really, but you know what I mean). He wanted to write adventures that captured the full feel of the culture while placing it a fantasy game setting...sort of the best of both worlds. The campaign world we were planning just happened to have a northern area that needed to be developed, so the Northlands were born and Ken put together an outline of a dozen or so adventures and began writing.
The four initial adventures were well received by those who got them but ended up being overshadowed by larger projects that kept diverting the attention of the company and the customers, so they never got the attention or sales that they probably deserved.
Eventually Ken started working on other games for Cublicle7 and told me that he wouldn't be able to complete the other Northlands adventures that we had talked about or the campaign guide that he had been working on. Wanting to get him what we could I asked if he would send me the notes and partial manuscripts that he had been working on to see if we could finish development. He sent me what he had, and no surprise--it was brilliant. He had a nearly complete manuscript for a campaign guide, complete or nearly-complete manuscripts for another half dozen adventures and notes and outlines for a handful more. Something had to be done.
For the last year I have been developing, rearranging, adding to, hiring out to other writers, and writing myself to get this thing done. It is awesome and it is huge...and it is nearly done.
Here's what it consists of:
A campaign guide complete with poster map of the Northlands region, gazetteer, history and timeline, new ethnicities, new player races, details on the gods and the concept of the gods' families (a big deal in Norse mythology) as well as the unique way that the Northlanders interact with their gods (clerics are actually pretty rare), new archetypes, a ton of new monsters, new optional rules for giving your game a truly Norse feel, and loads more.
An 11-adventure AP taking PCs from level 1 to nearly 20.
The first four adventures are reproduced and updated to fully conform to the full campaign setting plus all have additional content added. Since those four adventures started at level 5, we included a triple-length introductory adventure for levels 1-4. Then after NS4 we added NS5-NS10. All are done except NS6 (which is written and in development) and NS10 which is being written as we speak. Average adventure length was supposed to be 15,000 words (roughly the length of a long adventure in the days of Dungeon Magazine or half of a current Paizo AP adventure), but all have been expanded to some extent. There are very few less than 20,000 words. NS is triple-length (45,000 words), NS5 and NS7 are double-length, NS8 triple, NS9 quadruple, you get the idea. The campaign guide itself runs 60,000 words alone.
As I stated on another thread: this is not just typical adventures dropped in a setting with guys that have horned helmets (because of course they didn't actually have those!--except in the operas), this is some legit retelling of the Norse culture in a fantasy game setting. If you're interested in your game involving things like wyrd, the holmgang, the Things and Althings of the Northlands, rules of hospitality that have real bite and matter in-game, mind's worth, and the choice to give up the ghost in exchange for a legendary death when you feel your end is nigh, then this will be the campaign/adventure path for you. Bonus: it connects within a couple hundred miles of the northern end of the Sword of Air regional map, so it fits seamlessly with your Slumbering Tsar, Rappan Athuk, Stoneheart Valley, Barakus, and assorted other Frog God Games games.
So it's going to be a big book. I'd guess somewhere around 7-800 pages. That's around a 0.8 on the TSBS. A big book fully worthy of its material, and I'm excited about it and to finally get Ken his due.
I bow to thine advice, My Lord.
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New add ons, new pledge levels, and almost there!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/froggodgames/the-lost-lands-the-northl ands-saga-complete/comments
Here's the link
"A Long Winter's Night Chapters 1-6 - We've decided to release this unique collection of adventure modules as six individual chapters which you can purchase individually or as a bundle of all six!"
New add ons, new pledge levels, and almost there!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/froggodgames/the-lost-lands-the-northl ands-saga-complete/comments
Here's the link
"A Long Winter's Night Chapters 1-6 - We've decided to release this unique collection of adventure modules as six individual chapters which you can purchase individually or as a bundle of all six!"
So, to be clear, if I want to get the 6 chapters of A Long Winter's Night, I just need to add $60 to my current pledge?
And these are no longer stretch goals for the campaign, and will definitely be produced if the project funds?
Kinda sucks that we now need to pay more for them, but I guess it's better than the alternative of them not being funded at all...
Also, any ideas on how this would affect shipping costs? The postage to New Zealand is already looking fairly horrific, I'd think twice if it were to be increased by much more...
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So, to be clear, if I want to get the 6 chapters of A Long Winter's Night, I just need to add $60 to my current pledge?
And these are no longer stretch goals for the campaign, and will definitely be produced if the project funds?
Kinda sucks that we now need to pay more for them, but I guess it's better than the alternative of them not being funded at all...
Also, any ideas on how this would affect shipping costs? The postage to New Zealand is already looking fairly horrific, I'd think twice if it were to be increased by much more...
The special softcovers are $12 each, so it would be $72 if you wanted all of them for a specific ruleset (i.e. all PF versions or all S&W versions). These are add-ons now because they are separate from the stretch goals, so they will be available once the main project funds. Should the project take off and hit all 4 stretch goals for the first 4 parts of "A Long Winter's Night", then the text of those would be added to the main book as well.
Davrion - It's a discounted package for the softcovers if you buy all 6. That effectively means the cost for 5 softcovers is the same as the cost for getting the entire line.
Availability - It might be a week or two after the main project funds for A Long Winter's Night 1-6 to be available in PDF form. but I will be doing my best to get to them through production as quickly as possible.
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I would like to take a few minutes to pass something on. Last time FGG ran a KS I pledged for the Temple Dallas level. It wasn't as high as this one, but I did. While waiting for the day to arrive. I got emails and text from FGG personnel. Also I received a call from Bill Webb himself. He wanted to explain what was going to happen and when. Well time arrived and I drove to Fort Worth and arrived at the hotel. I had sent Bill a few texts. When I was at the front desk I called him, then poof there he was. It turned out that Matt Finch was one of the men who helped me get my luggage to my room. Bill or Greg Vaughn was always around to answer any question I had and to see to it that I had a great time. They invited me to their Thursday evening business meeting. I got to make a couple of comments. Don't know how much influence my comments had but I appreciated the fact that the Publisher was willing to listen to a customer. I played in one of Skeeter's games and a couple of Greg's games. Even got to run the BBEG in Greg's final game. It was great having the opportunity to meet Bob Bledsaw III, Jeff Dee, Wolfgang Bauer, and Larry Elmore. I took pictures from every game I was in and even got most of the FGG crew right before everyone left.
I had so much fun this year that is why I chose to pledge Temple Dallas again. If you have the means and the opportunity to do so I recommend you pledge to Temple Dallas and go to the North Texas RPG Con. It is a wonderful gathering of old school gamers and you could learn a lot and have a lot of fun.
Thanks for reading my very long post.
EDIT: BTW if you are a collector of RPG material this is the place to be to pick up some unique and rare items.
I wish the add-on system at Kickstarter was better set up, because I feel like I ask these questions on every Kickstarter I back, because it's always a little uncertain.
Me too - it doesn't help that the shipping assumptions aren't standardised either.
It kind of feels to me that the usage of kickstarter has evolved and they're still approaching it like it's a simple "back this much - get this stuff".
I think add-ons are still unofficial, but I suspect they'll program functionality for it at some time in the future. Goodness knows they're a common enough part of campaigns. XD
(For Clarity: By "Unofficial", I mean "Not a programmed, intentional part of the Kickstarter platform, but rather something that individual campaigns do". They're very official for the campaigns themselves, and it is my hope that official support - such as an "Add-on Picker" that calculates and raises pledges accordingly, will eventually be programmed for KS.)