|
Hello everyone!
No creature types (or sub-types) are specifically immune to confusion, but many, of course, are immune to mind-affecting effects. Spells that cause confusion are typically mind-affecting compulsions, so constructs, for example, are immune to those spells.
However, using a Cleric's variant channeling of the "madness" variety, one can cause targeted creatures to become confused. This is not stated to be a mind-affecting ability and is not stated to emulate any particular spell. Further, the "confused" condition itself is nowhere specifically stated to be mind-affecting (no condition is, actually).
So, if a construct fails its will save against your negative energy channel, and you have the madness variant channel ability, is the construct confused?
It's worth noting that there are also variant channeling abilities that cause the nauseous and dazed conditions, so similar questions could be raised in those cases as well.
I think the main problem is that the Variant Channeling Rules are not a well written rule set, mostly because it was an optional rule set.
Strictly speaking, it looks like this would work.
However, I think it probably shouldn't and as a GM I would rule that confusion would be a mind-affecting effect.
Well, looking at the thread about Fly and the paralyzed condition, I do feel obligated to point out that "Mind-Affecting" isn't a clearly defined rule, so you can ignore any and all references to it.
RAW.
Because "Mind" is not defined.
Well, looking at the thread about Fly and the paralyzed condition, I do feel obligated to point out that "Mind-Affecting" isn't a clearly defined rule, so you can ignore any and all references to it.
RAW.
Because "Mind" is not defined.
'mental action' is not defined,
but 'mind-affecting' is a rules term and is clearly defined.
I'd say that confused would definitely be considered mind-effecting. As you said, that's just a personal interpretation though, since no conditions specifically cover it.
Regarding dazed, I personally consider anything that is both immune to stunning and immune to mind-affecting to also be immune to dazed. This would be a more contentious ruling, but one which I personally think is quite appropriate, especially considering how overpowered dazed is otherwise.
If somehow the nausea didn't require a fortitude save, I'd say that anything that was immune to effects that require a fortitude save to be immune to it. I wouldn't really call it mind-affecting personally, but it's interesting since I can see how it could be considered such.
"Mind" is not defined.Mind-affecting is mentioned in spells. Only in spells though as far as I'm aware. Or at least mostly so. That's where the problem lies. In my opinion it should carry forward to anything that a GM also rules to directly affect a person's mind tough.
The problem with expanding the term "mind affecting" like that is that there are a lot of effects which reasonably speaking should be mind affecting, but aren't because of how many things have immunity but really shouldn't. Turn undead and other effects that make undead flee panicked, freeze on the spot, become friendly to the caster or obey the caster's commands, for example. The entire descriptor and everything surrounding it need to be overhauled, because we are in this weird state where undead (and plants to a lesser extent) get a whole bunch of quasi-mind-affecting spells to work on them and only them that don't count as mind-affecting because of legacy reasons. It also leads to a horrific amount of table varaiation, because a lot of effects are more physiological than mental. An Ankylosaurus's stun attack and Nightmare Vapor, for example (oh hey, a daze and a confusion effect that should work on mindless vermin and similar - I guess the terms shouldn't become always mind affecting after all).
Mind Affecting is most certainly not just for spells, however. Morale bonuses and the 20 rank Bluff skill unlock are mind-affecting, for example.
*casting Raise Dead*
Mind-affecting Effects can result in the Confused Condition. But the Effects and the Condition can be separate things. Anyone ever see a movie where a robot flails about chaotically repeating "Cannot Compute!" over and over again?
Is a construct/ooze/plant/undead/vermin immune to Mind-affecting spells and effects? Certainly.
Can the "magical wiring" of the construct/undead or the biochemical signals of the ooze/plant/vermin still become confused; resulting in erratic behavior? Why not?
Edit: out of curiosity, though, how would one deliver the Madness Variant Channeling effect to Undead targets? I was under the impression that negative channeling to harm won't touch undead and so won't deliver the Confused Condition to them. Then again, I'm not as brushed up on the Variant Channeling rules as I should be.
Madness implies a mind so I would say that the madness variant channel would be a mind affecting spell. This is my own personal opinion and is how I would rule in my games.
In any case it is moot point because constructs are neither living creatures nor undead. Channel energy has to target one or the other any other targets are not affected. This is supported by the fact that to affect an outsider or elemental requires a feat. To be affected by the variant channel effect requires that the target is affected by channel energy.
You are still able to channel to heal/harm outsiders along with everyone else. The Alignment Channel Feat allows you to target them specifically without affecting anyone else. Plus with the Feat you could channel to harm them even if you had positive channeling.
It is in fact possible to confuse constructs with a non-mind-affecting spell.
You are still able to channel to heal/harm outsiders along with everyone else. The Alignment Channel Feat allows you to target them specifically without affecting anyone else. Plus with the Feat you could channel to harm them even if you had positive channeling.
I stand corrected about outsides, but constructs are not living creatures. I looked it up and to be considered a living creature requires a CON score which constructs do not have.
You need the iron priest archetype from the tech guide if you want to trade constructs for undead as a type affected by channel energy.