Kapman |
OK. Here's a hypothetical;
Two characters are 40ft apart.
Character one casts spike stones, which are very hard to see, in a 40ft line between him and character two.
Character two fails his perception check to notice it, and declares a charge attack. His legs begin to shred on the first 5 feet.
My question is:
Is character two obliged to keep moving his whole charge?
- or
Can he stop right then and there?
- or
Does it take a minimum of 10ft to stop, because this is the minimum charge distance?
I cannot find anything in the movement sections about changing your mind based on the circumstance. Any insight would be good.
Ravingdork |
You decide how you'd like to move one square at a time, so if you move into a hazard, you can immediately choose not to keep doing so.
However, once the victim declares a charge, and begins the action, he can still stop as per above, but doing so will cost him his full round charge action just as if he had charged into an impassible obstacle.
Claxon |
Technically, I don't think you can even initiate the charge (despite not knowing the spikes are there) because:
Spike Stones:
Spike stones impede progress through an area and deal damage. Any creature moving on foot into or through the spell's area moves at half speed. In addition, each creature moving through the area takes 1d8 points of piercing damage for each 5 feet of movement through the spiked area.
Any creature that takes damage from this spell must also succeed on a Reflex save to avoid injuries to its feet and legs. A failed save causes the creature's speed to be reduced to half normal for 24 hours or until the injured creature receives a cure spell (which also restores lost hit points). Another character can remove the penalty by taking 10 minutes to dress the injuries and succeeding on a Heal check against the spell's save DC.
Magic traps such as spike stones are hard to detect. A rogue (only) can use the Perception skill to find spike stones. The DC is 25 + spell level, or DC 29 for spike stones. Spike stones is a magic trap that can't be disabled with the Disable Device skill.
Charge:
Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1.
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge. Helpless creatures don't stop a charge.
So this is an odd situation where by the rules even if he fails to notice he can't charge, he "knows" he can't for some reason he doesn't understand.
More reasonably, he begins the charge, take his first 5ft step is damaged and finds the path slows him and he cannot charge. I would say he uses up his move action (can't 5ft step because of Stone Spike), but still has his standard action available to him.
Shiroi |
There's tricks to stay hovering, I'm perfect maneuverability. Is that perception check mod for distance? I assume looking straight ahead I'd make a new one when I got closer, so its more about "is there a penalty for moving blindingly fast" than one for distance. I don't see anything 330 feet away (-33 perception from that far, and my wisdom isn't good).
Basically my gm thinks I'll just be flattened at those speeds, with little to no recourse for survival. I'm debating whether it's a good idea to invest so many feats into being fast if it's gonna hurt me more often than not to move full speed.
alexd1976 |
There's tricks to stay hovering, I'm perfect maneuverability. Is that perception check mod for distance? I assume looking straight ahead I'd make a new one when I got closer, so its more about "is there a penalty for moving blindingly fast" than one for distance. I don't see anything 330 feet away (-33 perception from that far, and my wisdom isn't good).
Basically my gm thinks I'll just be flattened at those speeds, with little to no recourse for survival. I'm debating whether it's a good idea to invest so many feats into being fast if it's gonna hurt me more often than not to move full speed.
Your GM is wrong.
You can roll perception when you are ten feet away, or three hundred.
You are not obligated to move your maximum speed, and may react to obstacles as they appear.
Sounds like your GM is asking you to declare your entire round, including speed, without you knowing what is going on.
Might as well get up and leave the room after that if that's how he's running it.
At best, he is wildly ignorant of the rules, at worst, he is actively trying to kill your character.
When moving, you move your character one square at a time. Make sure you do so.
Ask your GM if anything has changed, if you see anything.
Wait for his answer.
Then move another square.
You get the idea.
Shiroi |
Nah, he's not being rude about it, just trying to inject reality where it doesn't belong. Flying at those speeds, you would have a really hard time noticing a trap (or even a tree). He's picturing the speeder chase where all the clones crash themselves in the forest, and it's hard to fault him for it. Just a case of making sure no rules back him up before I try again to explain that a time thief has time to check their surroundings. ;)
Revel |
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@Shiroi:
Interjecting reality can be fun provided the group is OK with it and what is being interjected is, in fact some representation of reality. In the years I've been playing I've noticed when numbers start climbing it's good to convert those units into something we are more familiar with to gain a better perspective.
Having said all that, just so you know, 330 feet per 6 seconds is about 37.5 miles per hour, so a speeder chase it is not :)
Also for a little more perspective, when I googled it I found that most birds appear to typically fly in the 10~40 mile per hour range. Hope that helps.
Joesi |
For special scenarios like fast travel, if I really wanted to (if he really wanted to), I'd give a penalty to perception for moving fast, but would still allow for multiple perception checks for obstacles when it's reasonable to do so. Giving only a perception at the start of movement is absurd if the obstacle is far away and the creature is moving very fast.
Cevah |
@Shiroi
Since you can fly at insane speeds, and make a 180 the next turn and fly again at those same insane speeds, it is clear that flying only has inertia during your turn. Making that 180 in your turn costs 10' of movement. I would say that means you continue forward 5' slowing down to zero from whatever speed you were going, then reversing that same 5' before resuming insane speed. As long as you spot the trap beyond 5', you can avoid it. You might have trouble continuing to fly, but that is a different issue.
Running requires a strait line, but can reverse it the next turn. Therefore running has inertia only during your turn.
Regular move actions can change directions each square. Therefore move actions do not have inertia ever.
/cevah