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I'm looking at the Occultist's implements and am interested in seeing how they can grow mechanically in the game. Here is an interpretation of a step-by-step path:
1) Find (or purchase) an object that is one of the implement descriptions.
1a) It could also potentially be a Masterwork Tool and have those benefits, too.
2) If its broken, then mend it.
3) If it isn't already master crafted, then fix it with
The material component for the spell is magical reagents worth the cost difference between a normal item and the equivalent masterwork item (typically 300 gp for a weapon, 150 gp for armor, or 50 gp for a tool). If an object has multiple masterwork options (such as a double weapon, or a spiked shield that could be made masterwork as a weapon or armor), you choose one option of the object to affect (though you can cast the spell again to affect another option).
4) Make it a magic item. (If in PFS pay the difference for the item. If not, then use the relevant craft skills to on it.)
Is it possible to have an item that is an implement, a MwTool, and a magic item all in one?
I'm currently interpreting the rules to mean that it can only be all three (in PFS) if the magical upgrade is not already to some name-listed object (because, basically, that is what this implement actually already is.)
For instance Deathwatch eyes + Aura goggles = 2015 gp & 1 lb = one's gradually-improving divination implement
All Magical Items are Masterwork by default, with a few deliberate exceptions. However, the masterwork quality that provides a bonus is overwritten by the magical qualities.
To create a magic sword it has to be masterwork in the first place, which provides a bonus to hit. Once the sword is turned into a +1 sword it doesn't have a +2 to hit, it remains +1.
That being said there is really nothing stopping you from going through the steps you mentioned provided you have access to the skills, feats and spells to do so.
I'm not familiar with the Masterwork Transformation spell but I have to say I do not see the benefit of learning and applying that spell if you could just buy or craft a masterwork item in the first place. I would suggest not to take it as one of your extremely limited spells known because of that. Now, if you were a Wizard or Arcanist, or cast it from a scroll you found, it would be fine.
I think it's a very thematic idea; so I'd say go for it.
Some items can skip the masterwork phase, like a Cloak of Resistance for abjuration
I'm currently interpreting the rules to mean that it can only be all three (in PFS) if the magical upgrade is not already to some name-listed object (because, basically, that is what this implement actually already is.)
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by name-listed, but it suggests that you think Implements are some special category of items. Other than having some historical or personal significance, they aren't. They follow the same rules as any other item of their type. They are only Implements if you choose them that day. If you usually select a +1 sword as your Transmutation Implement and you want to get it upgraded, just select a different implement while it is being worked on. It will just be a plain-old standard magical sword in the meantime.
Or is it your feeling that an implement can also be either a MWtool or a Magic weapon, but not both?
Or maybe you feel they are all mutually exclusive?
Being an Implement doesn't make any difference. If you have a weapon that is also a masterwork tool then nothing prevents you from selecting it as your Transmutation Implement for the day.
I'm not familiar with the Masterwork Transformation spell but I have to say I do not see the benefit of learning and applying that spell if you could just buy or craft a masterwork item in the first place. I would suggest not to take it as one of your extremely limited spells known because of that. Now, if you were a Wizard or Arcanist, or cast it from a scroll you found, it would be fine.
Definitely don't waste a precious known spell slot on Masterwork Transformation. If the item has sentimental value then pay someone to cast this. Otherwise just go buy a better
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All Magical Items are Masterwork by default, with a few deliberate exceptions. However, the masterwork quality that provides a bonus is overwritten by the magical qualities.
Can you give an example or two of the exceptions?
To create a magic sword it has to be masterwork in the first place, which provides a bonus to hit. Once the sword is turned into a +1 sword it doesn't have a +2 to hit, it remains +1.
This I knew. But what I wasn't sure about was whether a MW'd weapon could also be a MWtool. For example:
- a +1 Ghost touch net that (due to its attached cultural-specific ornamentation, honors Grippli society) gives a +2 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy check with tropical forest Grippli.
That being said there is really nothing stopping you from going through the steps you mentioned provided you have access to the skills, feats and spells to do so.
I'm not familiar with the Masterwork Transformation spell but I have to say I do not see the benefit of learning and applying that spell if you could just buy or craft a masterwork item in the first place. I would suggest not to take it as one of your extremely limited spells known because of that. Now, if you were a Wizard or Arcanist, or cast it from a scroll you found, it would be fine.
As Gisher already stated, you could 'outsource' for spell services to have masterwork transformation cast, along with any other enhancements. Its not as cost-effective as making the items, but one doesn't always have access to the crafting feats or desired spells (as in Society play and/or martial builds, respectively.)
Other restraints maybe a timing issue; as in maybe you found the item before the occultist gained access to that schools implement, or vice versa which would mean that you don't have the required resources or components (or in PFS, the fame to get access to an item of that level yet). But if Gisher is right, then even that isn't something that can be worked around.
Obviously, we should always respect the thread about common sense and courtesy in regards to masterwork tools.(as requested in this thread).
Implements don’t need to be magic items, and nonmagical implements don’t take up a magic item slot even if they’re worn. Implements that are not magic items are often of some historical value or of personal significance to the occultist, such as the finger bone of a saint, the broken scepter of a long-dead king, the skull of a mentor’s familiar, or the glass eye of an uncanny ancestor.
So magic items are good as is. For non-magical items, the wording says "often" so they don't have to have historical or personal significance.
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What I like about the addition of implements is that there is now a way to justify those objects that give some sort of bonus, but were built with the requirement of having high ranks in the related skill – Basically, the object has been impregnated with the essence of its crafter.
but like on a sword.. Doesn't adding more enhancment bonuses basically require you to remake the weapon each time you add more?
As long as the materials of the item aren't being changed, having bonuses added to an object is as simple as paying the difference and waiting the allotted time to get it back from the craftsperson.
Zwordsman, if enchanting destroyed items and made new ones that would cause some significant problems for Wizard's Arcane Bond items, and anything similar, that allow for easier than usual enchantment but are punishing to the character if destroyed.
And I don't recall ever seeing a rule that said that was how it worked.
All Magical Items are Masterwork by default, with a few deliberate exceptions. However, the masterwork quality that provides a bonus is overwritten by the magical qualities.Can you give an example or two of the exceptions?
Sadly, no, I cannot. I very clearly remember reading a line to the effect, just not which...
To create a magic sword it has to be masterwork in the first place, which provides a bonus to hit. Once the sword is turned into a +1 sword it doesn't have a +2 to hit, it remains +1.
This I knew. But what I wasn't sure about was whether a MW'd weapon could also be a MWtool. For example:
a +1 Ghost touch net that (due to its attached cultural-specific ornamentation, honors Grippli society) gives a +2 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy check with tropical forest Grippli.
I don't actually know that, but I must admit I don't see why it matters. There's nothing stopping you from adding the Diplomacy bonus via crafting. Why the odd workaround?
That being said there is really nothing stopping you from going through the steps you mentioned provided you have access to the skills, feats and spells to do so.
I'm not familiar with the Masterwork Transformation spell but I have to say I do not see the benefit of learning and applying that spell if you could just buy or craft a masterwork item in the first place. I would suggest not to take it as one of your extremely limited spells known because of that. Now, if you were a Wizard or Arcanist, or cast it from a scroll you found, it would be fine.As Gisher already stated, you could 'outsource' for spell services to have masterwork transformation cast, along with any other enhancements. Its not as cost-effective as making the items, but one doesn't always have access to the crafting feats or desired spells (as in Society play and/or martial builds, respectively.)
Other restraints maybe a timing issue; as in maybe you found the item before the occultist gained access to that schools implement, or vice versa which would mean that you don't have the required resources or components (or in PFS, the...
Oh, of course there are valid reasons and methods for employing it. Its just that in general you shouldn't (looking at it from a purely mechanical perspective, of course. RP-wise this might be an entirely different story!).
All Magical Items are Masterwork by default, with a few deliberate exceptions. However, the masterwork quality that provides a bonus is overwritten by the magical qualities.
To create a magic sword it has to be masterwork in the first place, which provides a bonus to hit. Once the sword is turned into a +1 sword it doesn't have a +2 to hit, it remains +1.
Magical Armor and Weapons must be masterwork in order to enchant. The cost is +150 gp and +300 gp, respectively. No other magic item requires masterwork base items to enchant, unless specifically called out.
Making other items masterwork is +50 gp unless specifically called out. For example, thieves tools are 30 gp but a MW version is 100 gp, a +70 gp to make masterwork.
A masterwork weapon imparts a +1 enhancement bonus to attacks. This does not stack with the magical +1 enhancement a +1 Weapon gets. That is why it does not become +2, not because it is overridden.
The benefit of the spell is time. If you need to craft the weapon, or have it crafted, the time to generate that +300 gp worth of weapon is significant. Also, it lets you make it masterwork after the fact, i.e. after it has been made. Normally, you cannot do that.
/cevah