Any advice on making the campaign more challenging?


Kingmaker


Hello guys, I'm quite a new Pathfinder GM. My group and I have longed for a game such as Kingmaker, so when I saw a Pathfinder Core Rulebook on my local store I decided to learn it, despite I found learing PF impossible years ago.

Since 5e is a more steamlined (and severely limited...) version of 3.5/PF, It was way easier to learn this game after playing 5e for about a year.

My 3 players picked a Cavalier (plans to make him Dragon Disciple by multiclassing), a Trapper Archetype Ranger, a Summoner, and an alchemist (Mindchemist) I made myself since guys wanted me to add another female character to the group.

However since we started playing, the group has been breezing thru all of the challenges. The first bandit attack was a succesful ambush, with the Ranger ending Hapss' life with a confirmed critical, followed by the Eidolon pouncing on a surprised Bandit and the Cavalier arresting the last.

Since that point, the party has been murdering everything they find without losing much HP. No matter if I try to use tactics, I either forget them, get confused, or they fail anyways. I remember a Warg they found who lost because he made a critical miss against the horse, then they surrounded the Warg and proceeded to rip his life out.

The rest of the encounters, they've solved with Dicplomacy or sheer luck. They're level 2, almost level 3, and yesterday they breezed thru the Tatzlwyrm encounter without even trying, since the only 2 attacks the monster could pull were misses against the tanky monster the Cavalier is.

The only time a character was abut to die was my Alchemist, since she's not optimized and is built for roleplay purposes (based her on Elizabeth from Bioshock, so she's got both Charisma and Intelligence balanced, not much of a threat), but it was on the Temple of Erastil Encounter, so after the bear died being a piñata, they just washed her wounds on the fresh water they discovered was blessed.

So, here I am, about finishing book 1, and my PCs have been making every single encounter explode, be it random or planned, without even trying.

Any tips? As I mentioned, luck has been on their side, they like to see my rolls for creatures (we play online, roll20), and also I forget a lot about certain tactics despite using the SRD site and having the Unchained Action Economy broad open for me to see.


A few tips:

* Use the 6 player conversion if you need it.

* As your players start building their kingdom up, try to get your players invested in their kingdom. Once they are invested ... start having stuff threaten the kingdom. And don't be afraid to attack the kingdom in two or three places at once.

* For the next module, consider using Dudemeister's mod.

* Use weather. There's a random weather generator on d20pfsrd that can spit out a few months, or even years, of weather for you.

* Make the bad guys, particularly BBEGs like Hargulka, Vordekai, and the Stag Lord, active bad guys. They don't just sit in their lairs waiting for your players to come kill them. They ought to be sending their own minions and such out to make trouble for the players.

* Consider adding obstacles to the encounters. A routine random encounter with a wolf pack, for example, becomes more challenging if the wolves grab their provisions and run with them (in different directions!! at night!!) and you present your players with three different chase card paths to follow.

* Consider rolling several random encounters, then constructing a mini story based on the encounters. (I.e., encounter number one is a wolf pack. Encounter number two is a herd of elk. Encounter number three is a troll. Encounter number four is three tatzylwyrms.) Decide how these encounters interact.


One of the issues with KM is that it can get very "30 minute work day" where the party is able to use all of their abilities in a single encounter. Multiple encounters per day goes a long way. You dont have to be a slave to the random encounter table. If you think a random encounter would spice things up, throw on in.

I agree that the 6 player conversion is a good place to start. I'm using it myself with my group of 5 PC's, but I also gave them a favorable point buy.

To swing things back in the balance factor, I also removed XP and am just leveling them when I feel it's good for the pacing. This way, I wasnt worried about when I was adding random encounters and if the PC's would outlevel the module as it was written.

Lastly, I give all monsters/npc's maximum hitpoints. 6x 27 HP zombies (2 d12 Hit Dice plus Toughness) was a surprising little challenge against my PC's.


There's a long list of tools a GM has to challenge his table, but what form should the challenges take? Here's some things to consider:

The players. Are we dealing with a group who favors the more boardgamey aspects, or do they prefer roleplaying and go with alot of backstory? Whatever the case, answering that question is the most important aspect of your game because that sets the overall tone.

If the group likes killing stuff, then go for things like enhancing the encounter's action economy (substitute creatures w/ multiple attacks, swarms, haste/slow, etc). The previous entries have great ideas to that effect. Don't worry if you forget stuff, you'll get better as you go which will make the high level stuff easier for you.

If the group prefers intrigue then you can play around w/ moral quandaries like introduce a tribe of neutral to neutral-good creatures that you need to find a way to clear them out or live in harmony w/ them. Have consequences for the players actions and have that drive the narrative. Incorporate aspects the players backstories or incorporate their backstories into the AP.

Best case scenario, you run w/ both. Just remember action economy is one of the keys to making an encounter challenging.


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Run through and beef up all the encounters. My rule of thumb when making guys follows.

Minions:

-Should hit the party on a 13-15.
-Should deal damage equal to about 1/6th of the health of the character they're attacking on average at maximum.
-Should save against spells on a 14+
-Spell DCs very low (PC needs to roll like a 5+ to pass).

Tough enemies/Minibosses:

-Should hit the party on an 11-12.
-Should deal damage equal to about 1/3 of the health of the character on average at maximum.
-Should save on spells on an 11+
-Spell DCs about average (PCs need to roll like a 9+ to pass).

Bosses:

-Should hit the party on an 8 or so.
-Should deal damage equal to about 1/3-1/2 of the health of the character they're attacking on average every round.
-Should save on spells on an 8+.
-High spell DCs (PCs need like a 13+ to pass).

Tweak as needed if, for example, you want enemies that hit like a Mack truck but only rarely (So they need a 15 to hit, but take like half of the target's HP per swing). That's pretty much how I balance encounters in general.

They can still stomp over minions with ease, can generally wipe Minibosses out in about 2 rounds, maybe 3, and need healing afterward, and Bosses are often going to knock out at least one member of the party.


Curghann wrote:

One of the issues with KM is that it can get very "30 minute work day" where the party is able to use all of their abilities in a single encounter. Multiple encounters per day goes a long way. You dont have to be a slave to the random encounter table. If you think a random encounter would spice things up, throw on in.

I agree that the 6 player conversion is a good place to start. I'm using it myself with my group of 5 PC's, but I also gave them a favorable point buy.

To swing things back in the balance factor, I also removed XP and am just leveling them when I feel it's good for the pacing. This way, I wasnt worried about when I was adding random encounters and if the PC's would outlevel the module as it was written.

Lastly, I give all monsters/npc's maximum hitpoints. 6x 27 HP zombies (2 d12 Hit Dice plus Toughness) was a surprising little challenge against my PC's.

Uh, you know undead in Pathfinder have d8 HD, but Cha increases their like Con does for living things? 3.5 undead were a joke because of that, soooo squishy.


In kingmaker? Just fumble the roll on the random encounter table and have them meet a couple of consecutive Shambling mounds and/or will o wisps.
Travelling through the Stolen Lands at low level can be a long, exausting thing. Use weather conditions, pests, and the like to weaken them, use wandering monsters to keep them on edge and prevent full recuperation of powers/spells. Then have them wondering if reaching their target destination will be such a good idea... will they be able to make it back if they meet that many wandering monsters on the way home?

Basically, don't treat kingmaker as your standard AP: random encounters and weather conditions are your friends, make for great roleplay and contribute a lot keeping your pesky PCs on their toes.


Myrryr wrote:
Curghann wrote:
Uh, you know undead in Pathfinder have d8 HD, but Cha increases their like Con does for living things? 3.5 undead were a joke because of that, soooo squishy.

I'm running KM as a 3.5 game.


If there's only going to be one encounter per day, make it a doozy. I, too, have to deal with a tricked-out Cavalier when most encounters are outdoors.

It seems that the fights that have been memorable have featured a moderate number of "big" monsters-- Hargulka and his trolls, a batch of ogres that I swapped in for the spriggans, the hill giants at Drelevgrad. The cavalier could knock down 1 with every charge, while the rest of the party had their hands full with just two more at a time.

Another alternative is lots of mooks with strong leaders, but that doesn't seem to work too well for me-- the dice don't like my bosses.


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I'm running a Kingmaker game right now with the house rule that characters only regain their spell slots and daily powers with two days of downtime in a safe location (such as Oleg's, or one of their cities later), rather than with a night's rest. (Inspired by the "Gritty Realism" variant in 5e.)

Based on my experience so far, I highly recommend this variant. It lets me think in terms of "encounters per expedition" rather than "encounters per day", and re-introduces a sense of attrition where multiple weak encounters over the course of a weak can wear a party down.

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