Question on Cursed Items and Drawbacks.

[Scarletrose]

The answer to my questions seems obvious enough to me, but I felt like asking anyway because ... better safe than sorry.

One of the rules says:

• Submission is not a specific armor, specific weapon, or wondrous item, or involves rules elements specifically disallowed (intelligent items, cursed items, and so on).

Cursed Item is a very specific subset of items characterized by the fact that the Item has a drawback (and sometimes that's all it has).
Still, the type of drawback that identifies a cursed item is usually very specific.

On the other hand there are specific items like the Life Drinker or like the Vicious special ability that include drawbacks but are still not considered cursed items.

It appears clear to me that similar drawbacks should not disqualify an item, but still, I would like to make sure of it conclusively.

Are items that feature some sort of potential drawback allowed? As long as they don't mimic in any way the rules of cursed items of course.

[Donald Robinson]

Drawbacks to an item's use are not considered cursed; however, as was pointed out to me before that a drawback tends to show weak design balance in an attempt to bring the cost of an item down. (So drawbacks are allowed).

Basically it is better to have no drawbacks and really work at balancing the item's abilities and cost proportionally.

[Scarletrose]

sure...

I agree on the fact that drawbacks used to balance the cost are weak design. Sometimes drawbacks are not about balancing the item but rather about bringing out it's theme.

[Joseph Kellogg]

A cursed item by definition is when the drawback is a surprise, and outweighs any benefit. To avoid DQ, don't do that.

The more subtle issue is using drawbacks poorly. They shouldn't be used just to lower the price to get your item in the hands of lower-level characters. I think the key is that a drawback should force a player to make a hard choice about whether the item is worth it, and flow naturally from the theme and flavor.

[Monica Marlowe]

Scarletrose wrote:

The answer to my questions seems obvious enough to me, but I felt like asking anyway because ... better safe than sorry.

One of the rules says:

• Submission is not a specific armor, specific weapon, or wondrous item, or involves rules elements specifically disallowed (intelligent items, cursed items, and so on).

Cursed Item is a very specific subset of items characterized by the fact that the Item has a drawback (and sometimes that's all it has).
Still, the type of drawback that identifies a cursed item is usually very specific.

On the other hand there are specific items like the Life Drinker or like the Vicious special ability that include drawbacks but are still not considered cursed items.

It appears clear to me that similar drawbacks should not disqualify an item, but still, I would like to make sure of it conclusively.

Are items that feature some sort of potential drawback allowed? As long as they don't mimic in any way the rules of cursed items of course.

Short answer - don't do it.

Long answer - you're trying to have one of the Top 32 best items received by the voting population. You're trying to win a popularity contest, do you think a cursed item is the way to go?

[Scarletrose]

Monica Marlowe wrote:

Short answer - don't do it.

Long answer - you're trying to have one of the Top 32 best items received by the voting population. You're trying to win a popularity contest, do you think a cursed item is the way to go?

let's be more direct then...

If you felt that particular item would be very popular and is the most Superstar ready you have up your sleeve, would you roll with it, or would you build something new from scratch?

[Jacob W. Michaels]

I'd be very careful about submitting something with a drawback. I think we've seen a lot of items that do Constitution damage in return for some power, for example, and every time I think "why would I ever use this?!" Even items without a mechanical penalty sometimes make me think my character would never use it, such as when it replaces an eye or something along that regard.

If you think it's your best idea, go for it, but I'd take a long, hard look at it first and say is this something someone would want? Would they vote for it?

ETA: I think there is a place in magic item design for drawbacks. I like the idea of something that has a basic power but can also be used as a one-time "nuke" that destroys the item and risks suffering some other drawback (such as a spellblight). That said, I'm not sure that place is in Superstar, where you don't want to give people a reason to vote against your item.

[Mark Griffin]

You should probably do what you think is best, but it never hurts to get a second opinion on whether the item drawbacks are the good kind or the bad kind. Most often they're the bad kind. Show your item to someone whose opinion you trust, and also show your item to someone who usually disagrees with you. After that you can decide what to do.

[LazarX]

Remember that this year's Superstar isn't being selected by professional judges, but by the voting forum public. Now if you were a member of that public would you vote for a cursed item as opposed to something you'd want to use as a player?

Think about it.

[frank gori]

The drawback of submitting something with a drawback is hat voters hate them with the passion of a thousand suns...

The issue is if you item needs a drawback for game balance it's overpowered so you can choose your own design mistake:
a) If you make a trivial drawback go to spoiler #3
b) If you make a perfectly balanced "Goldilocks" drawback that compensates exactly right Go to spoiler #2
c) If you over compensate and make a heinous drawback go to spoiler #1

spoiler #1:

The voters call your item cursed and you get culled early, if you submit your item for feedback people call this out a bunch.

spoiler #2:

God murders kittens when you lie, now go to spoiler #1

spoiler #3:

An overpowered item with a trivial or easily ignored drawback is still overpowered. You'll lose points for being overpowered and with anyone who has a bugbear with drawbacks.

For the record I learned this the hard way by trying it my first year...

[Scarletrose]

it's sad to see drawbacks considered as ways to balance an item.
I don't want to say that balancing an item gets a backseat to the item flavor (the mechanics of the item are important, even more so in a design contest) but certainly balancing an item is about crunching numbers and powers correctly, not in creating something unbalanced and trying to balance it by putting an opposite unbalanced condition.

Unfortunately, I cannot really say much more about the item without breaking the anonymity but it's really more like an added cost that opens to an interesting mechanic rather than an item that an item that is god tier but screws with you in return.

In the end I don't feel is much more severe than the fatigue at the end of a barbarian rage.

I wasn't aware that this year the judges are completely out of the picture from the top32 vote.
I believe the item I have in mind could be popular (although, I would certainly follow the suggestion to share it with a few trusted people and hear their opinion about it) but I wonder if there are other considerations to make.
Like making an item that tries to be too clever for my own good.

[Thomas LeBlanc]

GM_Solspiral wrote:

The drawback of submitting something with a drawback is hat voters hate them with the passion of a thousand suns...

For the record I learned this the hard way by trying it my first year...

Or the judges hate it, which is what happened to my first RPGSS entry.

[The black raven]

Scarletrose wrote:

I believe the item I have in mind could be popular (although, I would certainly follow the suggestion to share it with a few trusted people and hear their opinion about it) but I wonder if there are other considerations to make.

Like making an item that tries to be too clever for my own good.

You can get great help on this by PMing people who offered their help in the workshopping thread. I know I did receive immense value through their reviews.