Warder Stealth


Advice and Rules Questions


Hello,

The armor clad Dwarven Warder in our group is unsurprisingly not great at stealth. We have made do as we can but it has been a bit of a problem. More importantly, until we need doors kicked down we are having to leave the character behind or at a distance a little too frequently. More than once the player has had to sit there bored while the rest of us stealth around for awhile. What are some options we can use to boost his stealth?

Sovereign Court

What your describing isn't a problem - it's a game feature.

You can use magic items/spells etc - but there's no cheap & easy way to do it.


Invisibility and silence combination.


Silence. Martial maneuvers don't need sound.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:

What your describing isn't a problem - it's a game feature.

You can use magic items/spells etc - but there's no cheap & easy way to do it.

Being a game feature and being problematic in the game are not mutually exclusive things. It's a game feature that the Tarrasque is nearly unkillable. Doesn't mean it isn't a problem while fighting it.

It's fine if the options aren't cheap and easy, I'm just trying to compile what our options are.


Silence is good, as others have said.

Also, an elven cloak--add it on to a cloak of resist, not that expensive.

Ring of stealth, 2500g, or a little more as an add-on.

Stealth enchantment on armor is an add-on instead of a flat bonus cost.

One of these should net the PC a +5. Not amazing, but it's helpful.

The stealth synergy teamwork feat is also nice.

A headband of intelligence +2 can have stealth statted as its skill, and runs 4000.

What I would do is go with the headband, and a +5 booster item. Then he gets his level in ranks with a +5 on top.

Or the feat, if folks have room.


A ring of Chameleon Power will get him a +10 competence bonus for 12.7k

Shadow Armor will net him a +5 Competence bonus for 3750.

Creeping armor is a flat +5000 GP and will remove ACP from stealth rolls.

Mithral armor instead of whatever material he's using will gain a +3 to his stealth checks. That'd be 9k for just the materials, then all the magical stuff he wants on there.

Skill Focus: Stealth will grant either a +3 or a +6 to stealth checks depending on level.

Note: all of this is spending resources that he could otherwise use to be good at his actual job of getting hit in the face.

Edit: I was assuming he had ranks in stealth. Otherwise, that's probably your starting point.


My Warlord already has Stealth Synergy and the DM is being pretty generous with its use. Even then the above average rolls are only giving him middling results. We have an NPC who can craft wondrous items so throwing an elven cloak to his cloak of resistance is a good option. Completely forgot about headband of Int giving skills, which works out nicely since Int is his initiation modifier.


Skaldi the Tallest wrote:

A ring of Chameleon Power will get him a +10 competence bonus for 12.7k

Shadow Armor will net him a +5 Competence bonus for 3750.

Creeping armor is a flat +5000 GP and will remove ACP from stealth rolls.

Mithral armor instead of whatever material he's using will gain a +3 to his stealth checks. That'd be 9k for just the materials, then all the magical stuff he wants on there.

Skill Focus: Stealth will grant either a +3 or a +6 to stealth checks depending on level.

Note: all of this is spending resources that he could otherwise use to be good at his actual job of getting hit in the face.

Edit: I was assuming he had ranks in stealth. Otherwise, that's probably your starting point.

Creeping armor isn't bad, will probably have to wait a level or two to pick up. Yeah Mithral armor would be great but the player is dead set on having adamantine full plate. The player has been the most effective combatant. A little too effective in the DMs eyes. He is essentially our Hulk so he has some room to buff weaknesses over his strengths. He has begun to put ranks in to stealth, but so far he has only had a few points to spare and they haven't made much difference.


Oddly enough, invisibility gives him +20 to Stealth and it works even when he's moving (+40 when he's not), so somehow invisibility actually makes him harder to hear, too.

Go figure.

Other choices that haven't been mentioned might be to give him a movement form that doesn't require him to actually walk, like flight or levitation - while that has no stealth bonus explicitly stated, it's a very easy argument that if he's just hovering there off the floor and floating down the hall then his noisy armor isn't going to be a problem since he's not stomping and clattering about.

And finally: stab him in the back, bury the corpse, sell his gear for some quick cash, hire a monk (e.g. that players rolls a new monk character, preferably unchained) for all your front-line needs, and use that cash to buy the monk some extra gear to make him awesome.

And, hey, I'm impossible to kill - even my soul is armored!


All of you should take the Stealth Synergy feat and all be awesome at stealth. One of the few teamwork feats with actual payoff.


We can look at the stealth issue as two separate components - high ACP and not having stealth as a class skill. To solve the ACP issue:

Mithril Heavy Armor: 3 ACP
Clad in Armor Class Feature: -2 ACP (at level 6)
Armor Training Trait: -1 ACP

This is costly, of course, but even without mithril, you can reduce the ACP of a set of masterwork heavy armor to -2 with just the MW bonus, Clad in Steel, and Armor Training.

Stealth as a class skill can be obtained by taking the Wayfarers tradition to replace a discipline with Veiled Moon. This will not only give you Stealth as a class skill, but also give you a serious incentive to invest in it as Veiled Moon counters are excellent.

Or the player can burn another trait to get a +1 Stealth and stealth as a class skill.\

The Warder is INT-based with 4+INT skill points, so he should have no trouble getting max ranks in stealth. This can be increased further with a cloak of elvenkind or shadowed armor.

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