Are intelligent undead (i.e. undead with an intelligence score) immune to mind affecting effects?
Yes. According to the PRD's section on Universal Monster Rules from the Bestiary:
Undead Traits (Ex) Undead are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, phantasms, and patterns), paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). Undead are not subject to ability drain, energy drain, or nonlethal damage. Undead are immune to damage or penalties to their physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. Undead are not at risk of death from massive damage.
So that particular trait is due to being undead, rather than being mindless.
They are.
yes, however, i find this dumb, and therefore do not apply those rules in my games.
There is a feat that allows them to be affected by spells
I think the rationale behind is that you need an organic brain to manipulate it. For example, constructs are immune too.
I think the rationale behind is that you need an organic brain to manipulate it. For example, constructs are immune too.
Intelligent constructs (soulbound dolls, etc.) typically have a special rule allowing them to be affected by mind-affecting spells.
Hard to affect their mind when they don't have a brain. Plants are the same way.
They also cannot be intimidated.
this is the reason i ignore this in my games.
They also cannot be intimidated.this is the reason i ignore this in my games.Could this also be the reason you find casters so powerful vs Martials? Ignoring rules that limit their power.
(Ducks........sorry, sorry everyone, couldn't help myself. Move along)
Or maybe it's an attempt to let Fighters make more use of one of their few class skills?
They also cannot be intimidated.this is the reason i ignore this in my games.Could this also be the reason you find casters so powerful vs Martials? Ignoring rules that limit their power.
(Ducks........sorry, sorry everyone, couldn't help myself. Move along)
like... this is more likely to help the fighter...
Unfortunately all undead are immune to mind affecting effects. Really sucks for spellcasters that specialize in enchantment magic.
Not really. As was pointed out, there's a feat for that.
Unfortunately all undead are immune to mind affecting effects. Really sucks for spellcasters that specialize in enchantment magic.Not really. As was pointed out, there's a feat for that.
Feat tax prerequisite and a +2 spell level adjustment (Goodbye, Persistent) to cast spells that pretty much exclusively target undead's good save? I guess you could, but it's a losing proposition. I guess you could stock up on Metamagic Rods of it though to try to minimize the pain.
This is kind of a legacy problem - the Undead type was built around Zombies and Skeletons (and the Construct type around golems). So it doubles up on the 'immune to mind-affecting' thing those monsters were already getting from the em-dash where their int score should be.
And then when to get an Undead (or Construct) monster that can think for itself, it gets weird. Charm monster really should be able to charm a lich or an awakened golem or a homunculus.
Hey, at least most corporeal undead can be crit in Pathfinder, that's something.