Howdy guys,
Built a new character. Decided to try my hand with a rogue.
All about that stealth (but also poison).
Feats I've focused on are:
Weapon Finesse (so I don't have a tanked AC)
Poison Master (so I don't poison myself - I believe this is just an inhouse feat)
Improved Feint (gone with this so I can feint, hopefully succeed, and then opponent will have their dex denied, so I can sneak attack them)
Combat Expertise (because it's a requirement for Improved Feint).
I've got a high sleight of hand/stealth (14/18 respectively)
16 perception (19 when finding traps), 17 diable device and mid 10s for most everything else. I wanted a character I could also have some fun with out of game (as a chaotic Neutral character).
As a gnome, I've replaced Obsessive with Academican. I've replaced Hatred and Defensive for Gift of Tongues.
Rogue Talents I've got Canny Observer, Fast Getaway and Fast Stealth.
What I'm not sure on is how well this character would work. Like, I know what I want to do with it, but survivability is questionable.
HP is 49. AC is 19
Stats are:
Str:10
Dex: 19
Con: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 10
Cha: 12
Without sneak attack damage, I do a whopping 1d3 +5 damage :D
I was going to use Knife Master Archetype, but decided against it cause I lost trapfinding/sense.
Some thoughts would be great.
Cheers
As another point, how would it go if I multiclassed and took on an Alchemist for 3 levels (max) and used my rogue talent to get Bomber, which deals my sneak damage with bombs?
MadE wrote: As another point, how would it go if I multiclassed and took on an Alchemist for 3 levels (max) and used my rogue talent to get Bomber, which deals my sneak damage with bombs? Use Unchained Rogue instead of regular rogue. Weapon Finesse comes free. If you can't use Unchained Rogue, try Ninja instead, so you don't burn a feat on Poison Master (Ninjas get Poison Use for free at level 1). Use your Rogue talent to pick up Weapon Finesse instead of using your feats to pick it up. Canny Observer might not be worth taking- it's a situational +4 to Perception where the Skill Focus feat, which is a constant +3 to Perception, might be better.
Poison is generally a bad idea to use, because it's expensive and doesn't provide all that much benefit quickly- damage might be worth it more. Poison Use is insurance to cover a 5% chance of a poison failure, and it might not be worth taking.
Since you're going dex-focus, you might as well get TWF, then later Improved TWF and Greater TWF. Extra attacks are always good, especially with flat bonuses like Sneak Attack.
Mechanically speaking, don't multiclass. Bomb does INT + 1d6/2 levels, Sneak Attack does attack + 1d6/2 levels.
Can I ask, what weapon are you using? What armor? And what might your party look like?
Using a Kurri. Just a small dagger. Leaf armour (highest I could find as light armour that gave a good ac.
Party has a gnome alchemist (self centred little shit). Lol. A dwarf healer, a half elf magus and a dwarf cavalier. There's really only 1 melee character. Most are range. Up until recently I was the best range as an elf crossbow man. Was whooping, but then we got cornered, they broke through and killed me.
The reason I'm looking at bombs, is because I can use my sneak attack damage for them. I'm going to be more of a 40 percent combat 60 percent out of combat fighter. Up until now I've typically been more of a 90 percent combat 10 percent out of combat.
Thats also why I like the idea of alchemist for multi class, as it would allow me to make my own poisons and stuff by finding them. Our group does that very often, and it's what I did as a crossbow man.
Any input appreciated though! Gotta have this guy ready by the weekend. Haha
Unchained rogue sure looks like the way to go to me. Free weapon finesse and dex to damage is hard to pass up.
If you want to do a three level dip I would suggest going Hunter. Use one of your feat slots on Combat Expertise, and the Hunter class bonus feats will give you Outflank and Pack Flanking, as well as Hunter Tactics. What does all of that do?
Well, any time you and your animal companion are threatening the same bad guy (which should be always, if you're riding him) you will be flanking. You'll also get +4 to hit instead of +2. Always on flanking means always on sneak attack.
That frees up the Improved Feint feat, and I would drop the poison feat as well. What to do with the extra feats? If you want to go with the Hunter plan you could take a look at some of the other teamwork feats. Escape Route lets you move without threatening. There are a few that spike your attacks of opportunity if you want to go that way.
MadE wrote: Using a Kurri. Just a small dagger. Leaf armour (highest I could find as light armour that gave a good ac.
Party has a gnome alchemist (self centred little s#+*). Lol. A dwarf healer, a half elf magus and a dwarf cavalier. There's really only 1 melee character. Most are range. Up until recently I was the best range as an elf crossbow man. Was whooping, but then we got cornered, they broke through and killed me.
The reason I'm looking at bombs, is because I can use my sneak attack damage for them. I'm going to be more of a 40 percent combat 60 percent out of combat fighter. Up until now I've typically been more of a 90 percent combat 10 percent out of combat.
Thats also why I like the idea of alchemist for multi class, as it would allow me to make my own poisons and stuff by finding them. Our group does that very often, and it's what I did as a crossbow man.
Any input appreciated though! Gotta have this guy ready by the weekend. Haha
Do you mean dwarf cleric? Because if your dwarf is a cleric playing healer at your level, you should be very, very thankful. This is about the level when casters start pulling ahead of regular mortals.
To more clearly reiterate what I said earlier: Sneak Attack and Bombs have the same scaling. If you're going to get bombs, you might as well be a plain Alchemist. As a multi classed Rogue/Alchemist, you'll be losing out on getting more bombs and getting better Sneak Attack, so you might as well stay plain Rogue. The only exception is if you take Vivisectionist Alchemist, which gives you access to Invisibility at 4th level (awesome for rogues), as well as sneak attack and a strong fortitude save (but no bombs).
Daggers are fine as weapons, though Kukris are better (but require martial weapon proficiency). You should get a Mithral Chain Shirt- it'll last you most of your adventuring career, unless you get Celestial Armor.
So much to think about now!
Thanks guys! :D
Gnomes can get the fell magic alt racial trait, which allows the use of chill touch. A touch attack is a handy addition vs. tough opponents.
The only reason to ever play core rogue now, is that unchained rogue is not allowed. I assume these days when someone says rogue, they mean unchained rogue because the unchained version was made as a fix, not as an extra option. That aside...
are you playing in a world without magic items? because you should probably have something more than a plain non-magic chain shirt as your only defense at level 7. At the very least get a ring of prot +1 and a +1 chain shirt for an AC of 21. Also if you aren't going to dual wield, grab a +1 buckler for 2 more AC.
Yeah it's a magic world. And yeah, I've got a +1 chain shirt and a shield. Can't have it plus one yet, as we're only allowed to start with 2 plus 1 items.
Also, just designed an Unchained Rogue.
Fairly interesting. I've taken Moonlight Stalker, as well as Camouflage, so increasing the possibility of hiding and gaining concealment. Plus, I can't have my dex bonus taken off me (even by invisible people) unless I'm immobile etc.
It's important I keep my dex bonus, or I'm a dead gnome :D
You'll need a bit more than dex to survive. If you're not going TWF, then pick up a darkwood buckler.
Yeah I get that. But it is only early level :D
I'll end up getting decent gear eventually. I might steal it ;)
Also, what sort of strategy would I use to steal from other players? (Including NPCs)?
I read a strategy that you used bluff to distract them (call their attention to something else) and then use sleight of hand?
That sounds about right. Get your allies to bluff or you can bluff, then you steal, or you stealth then steal, or kill then steal, or steal their kill. It's all situational, though, so you can improvise how to steal depending on the situation.
Try to pick up the buckler soon. It costs less than a masterwork weapon.
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