Intelligent Items Gaining Control While Asleep


Rules Questions


I have failed the save of a sleep effect (via the Witch's Slumber Hex). I am a Bladebound Magus with an intelligent Black Blade. It has an Ego, and therefore can take over dominance. I have found the rule allowing me to voluntarily fail saves, meaning I could allow the blade to take over.

Two questions:

1. Can the blade strike me to wake me, or is there some other rule that would allow it to wake me using the aid another action (and is there rules supporting that beyond logic and DM fiat)? The slumber hex specifies noise will not work.

2. If not, can the blade take over my body while asleep and use itself to strike me or act against my opponent?


Unless the blade has some way to animate itself (being intelligent doesn't automatically convey mobility) I don't see how it could strike you. However, if it can move or something similar than certainly it could.

For your second question, I don't think that is directly addressed. I certainly wouldn't allow a voluntary fail of a save while you are unconscious, as I believe that is an act of will. As to whether it could control your sleeping body if it succeeded at the domination, that is an interesting question that I would probably want to think about. Sleep, and therefore the slumber hex, are mind-effecting, so I'd probably be inclined to let a different dominating enemy take control of the body.


I say yes to all things that screw with that stupid hex.

But for RAW, "Intelligent" is not the same as "capable of moving independently" so unless it has the ability to move itself, say, with Telekinesis or some such thing, then it cannot strike you. If it can, then it can wake you even without doing damage (just like a PC could).

The second point is harder. I would suggest that domination type effects control the conscious mind, and that's the part of you that is sleeping so your blade cannot just control you and ignore the sleep effect. I base this assumption on the fact that nowhere in any domination effect does it say "When you dominate someone, they become immune to sleep effects because you would just control their sleeping body anyway". So, if you cast "Dominate Person" on an orc, and then some witch puts your orc to sleep, the orc sleeps - your domination doesn't grant him immunity. Likewise for your blade dominating you; you're still asleep.


I would say no, and no are the answers to your questions.


DM_Blake wrote:
So, if you cast "Dominate Person" on an orc, and then some witch puts your orc to sleep, the orc sleeps - your domination doesn't grant him immunity. Likewise for your blade dominating you; you're still asleep.

I agree with that 100%. I was thinking of magic item dominance more like magic jar or possession. On consideration, I'm not sure I was justified in thinking of it that way.


I suppose that the telepathic function plays no effect then, and it does not matter that it would take possession after I had already fallen asleep then?

Too bad, coup de grace and the end of me.


Jordan Hawkings wrote:
Too bad, coup de grace and the end of me.

Yay. Another win for the witch. Hooray. Yawn. And another nail in the coffin of totally banning that class from my game, PCs and NPCs alike.

I'm sorry for your loss. It's stupid to die to a ridiculous "I WIN!!!" class ability that should never have been created in the first place. (The rules are stupid, not you).


Iirc if you are unconsciouss (like when sleeping) you automatically fail all saves and count as willing for effects (like teleport).


Also: Why ban the Witch class, why not just the Slumber Hex?


DM_Blake wrote:
Jordan Hawkings wrote:
Too bad, coup de grace and the end of me.

Yay. Another win for the witch. Hooray. Yawn. And another nail in the coffin of totally banning that class from my game, PCs and NPCs alike.

I'm sorry for your loss. It's stupid to die to a ridiculous "I WIN!!!" class ability that should never have been created in the first place. (The rules are stupid, not you).

I just limit slumber hex to creatures of equal or less HD than the caster. It helps alot...the witch can still wipe mooks all day, but not trivialize major encounters.

Scarab Sages

If it takes you over, that doesn't mean "control your body". It would be no more successful than you being able to wake yourself up from a dream, for which there are no rules.

If I were GM, maybe I'd allow it to "shout" in your head giving you another save next round.

Secondly, allowing it to take over is almost as bad as letting a demon or ghost possess you thinking "oh it will do what I want". Which is hardly the case when it comes to thousands of years old artifacts. You wouldn't be an NPC, but you'd be effectively under a geas.

I also stopped using Coup de Grace on players. It ends the fun.


Guru-Meditation wrote:
Also: Why ban the Witch class, why not just the Slumber Hex?

Slumber is only one of its problems, a symptom of the class mechanic.

Berti Blackfoot wrote:
I also stopped using Coup de Grace on players. It ends the fun.

No, it IS the fun! Where's the fun in playing a game where ONLY the heroes can use the good tricks? The ONLY decent balance to mitigate players bringing mechanically OP characters to the table is that the GM gets to use the same tactics against them.

Oh, oh, I know - you don't want bad guys to have nice things...

(not picking on you, it's just a sarcastic homage to all the martial threads of late)

Oh, I just realized, the OP's martial character got killed by a caster. That's exactly what is supposed to happen. All is well again...


Larkspire wrote:
I just limit slumber hex to creatures of equal or less HD than the caster. It helps alot...the witch can still wipe mooks all day, but not trivialize major encounters.

I like this solution to the curse that has been Slumber Hex!


Thanks for all your replies! I was actually a level above said witch in this case, so that restriction would have worked out for me. We are playing an E6 arena (http://p6codex.com/) so the options are all low level, making this quite potent.

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