How to make the Vigilante competitive in combat

[Helcack]

I posted all of my ideas on a different thread, but I would like to get feedback on if people think my ideas are good. I would also like to hear others ideas for how to improve the Vigilante without going through 10 other threads. Please post your ideas below!

Avenger/Stalker changes:

The Avenger and Stalker need to be a little more than they currently are, but also not just straight up beat out what the fighter's/Rogue's job. So, using systems already created(if not core) I have come up with a solution. Below are additions to the Avenger and Stalker specializations.
Both the Avenger and Stalker gain Grit and the Deeds mentioned below.

The Avenger gains a stamina pool at 1st level as from Pathfinder: Unchained, if everyone already gains a stamina pool then instead the Avenger gains Extra Stamina and Push the Limits as bonus feats.

At 20th level instead of Vengeance Strike the Vigilante Avenger gains the following:
Avenger's Strike: As a full-round action the Avenger may move up to twice their speed and make any number of attacks they are normally allowed+1 along the path. This movement can instead be taken by a mount if the Avenger is mounted, and either way does not provoke attack of opportunity.

The Stalker gains an Inspiration pool based on Intelligence. They can use this pool only for attack rolls, saves, and Charisma based skill or ability checks.

At 20th level instead of Vengeance Strike the Vigilante Stalker gains the following:
Stalker's Ingenuity: The Stalker's Hidden Strike ability now applies to any opponent that is staggered or stunned. If the Stalker could make a Hidden Strike, it ignores all Armour and Natural Armour bonuses possessed by the foe. The Stalker is now only affected by Divination effects when they choose to be.

Grit:
The Avenger gains a grit pool that allows them to pull off amazing stunts to survive in even the most dire situations.
This Grit pool is equal to their charisma modifier, and they regain grit points whenever they confirm a critical hit or succeed at a check which had a good chance to kill them during combat(Ex: Jumping across buildings with a 100' drop and no way to reduce the falling damage).

Deeds:

Adrenaline Rush: At 1st level whenever the Vigilante would make a Strength or Dexterity based skill or ability check they may spend 1 grit point to add 1d4 to that roll.

Avenger's Vigilance: At 1st level the Vigilante reduces all negatives to Perception checks from distance or interference by half rounded up as long as they have at least 1 grit point in their grit pool.

Not Dead Yet: At 1st level the Vigilante may spend 1 grit point to receive 1d6 temporary hit points that last 1 minute, this is a morale effect. The amount of temporary hit points gained increases by 1d6 at 10th, and 20th level.

Power of Will: At 6th level whenever the Vigilante would make a save against a mind-affecting effect they may spend 1 grit point to add their Charisma bonus to that save.

Intense Training: At 6th level the Vigilante may spend 1 grit point when performing a full attack to replace any attack with a combat manoeuvre, these combat manoeuvres do not provoke attack of opportunity.

Push through the Pain: At 11th level whenever the Vigilante would be knocked unconscious from damage, they may spend 1 grit point to ignore up to their Vigilante level in damage for a number of rounds equal to their Charisma modifier, in addition during this time they add their Charisma score to their Constitution score to determine at what hit points they die.

One Hit, One Kill: At 11th level whenever the Vigilante could make a full attack, they may instead spend 2 grit points and make their maximum number of attack rolls from their base attack bonus vs. their opponents AC. For each hit the Vigilante rolls the weapon's damage die and adds their Charisma modifier to each hit. If the total damage exceeds 1/2 of the opponents hit points after applying damage reduction then instead of taking damage the opponent must make a fortitude save vs. the damage dealt+the Vigilante's Charisma modifier or be instantly killed. This is a death effect, all effects that prevent or apply to critical hits and sneak attack apply to this attack.

Intimidating Glower: At 16th level whenever the Vigilante makes an intimidate check, they may spend 1 grit point and make a gaze attack vs. one opponent within 30 feet. The opponent must make a Will save equal to the Avenger's level + the Avenger's Charisma modifier or be frightened for 3 rounds. The number of rounds increases to 3+ the Vigilante's Charisma modifier at 16th level. Once affected by the Vigilante's Intimidating Glower, the subject is immune to this effect for 24 hours.

No One Can Know: At 16th level whenever the Vigilante's secret identity is at risk, the Avenger may spend all remaining grit points in their grit pool to perform 2 full rounds of actions. These actions can only be used to escape or prevent their identity from being revealed. If the Vigilante's identity is revealed or they are in their social aspect instead the Vigilante may at any time spend 1 grit point to re-roll a disguise or bluff check.

Unflinching Dedication: At 19th level whenever the Vigilante would be affected by a negative condition(Ex: stunned, dazed) they may spend 1 grit point to ignore that condition for a number of rounds equal to their Charisma modifier. This may be done for separate conditions, but you must spend 1 grit point for each condition. This deed cannot be reduced by any feat or ability(such as signature deed).

Sense of Purpose: At 19th level whenever the Vigilante would deal a deciding blow to an enemy in combat, they may instead spend 2 grit points and forgo that blow to make a Charisma check with a bonus equal to the Vigilante's level to convert an opponent to their point of view. The opponent makes a will save vs. the Charisma check and receives a +5 on this save for every step in difference between their alignment and the Vigilante's(Ex: CE character receives a +20 bonus on this save vs a LG character, but a LE character receives only a +10 bonus.

Warlock/Zealot spells/day:

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1 0
2 1
3 2
4 2 0
5 3 1
6 3 2
7 3 2 0
8 3 3 1
9 4 3 2
10 4 3 2 0
11 4 3 3 1
12 4 4 3 2
13 4 4 3 2 0
14 4 4 3 3 1
15 4 4 4 3 2
16 4 4 4 3 2 0
17 4 4 4 3 3 1
18 4 4 4 4 3 2
19 4 4 4 4 4 3
20 4 4 4 4 4 4

Warlock/Zealot spells known/prepared:

0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1 4 2
2 5 3
3 6 4
4 6 4 1
5 6 4 1
6 6 4 2
7 6 5 2
8 6 5 2 1
9 6 5 2 2
10 6 5 2 2 1
11 6 6 2 2 1
12 6 6 2 2 2
13 6 6 2 2 2
14 6 6 3 2 2 1
15 6 6 3 2 2 2
16 6 6 3 2 2 2 1
17 6 6 3 3 2 2 1
18 6 6 3 3 2 2 2
19 6 6 3 3 2 2 2
20 6 6 3 3 3 2 2

Arcane/Divine Training II-VI:

Arcane/Divine Training II (Ex): The vigilante increases
the number of 2nd-level spells they know/can prepare by one per 6 vigilante levels. A vigilante must be at least 6th level, have an Intelligence/Charisma of 14 or higher, and have the arcane/divine training I base ability to select this talent.

Arcane/Divine Training III (Ex): The vigilante increases
the number of 3rd-level spells they know/can prepare by one per 6 vigilante levels. A vigilante must be at least 10th level, have an Intelligence/Charisma of 15 or higher, and have the arcane/divine training II base ability to select this talent.

Arcane/Divine Training IV (Ex): The vigilante increases
the number of 4th-level spells they know/can prepare by one per 6 vigilante levels. A vigilante must be at least 14th level, have an Intelligence/Charisma of 16 or higher, and have the arcane/divine training III base ability to select this talent.

Arcane/Divine Training V (Ex): The vigilante increases
the number of 5th-level spells they know/can prepare by one per 6 vigilante levels. A vigilante must be at least 18th level, have an Intelligence/Charisma of 17 or higher, and have the arcane/divine training IV base ability to select this talent.

Arcane/Divine Training VI (Ex): The vigilante increases
the number of 6th-level spells they know/can prepare by one per 6 vigilante levels. A vigilante must be at least 20th level, have an Intelligence/Charisma of 18 or higher, and have the arcane/divine training V base ability to select this talent.

[Zwordsman]

NOTE: Did you mean to write "warlock/zealot" and not Magus/zealot?

Personally I like the current spells prepared.(Yours isn't too bad but i would increase the 4 and 3 and 2's by 1 at least.. too few lv 6 preparations). but they totally need more per day. that preferably scales wehther or not they take the talents.
(and personally I think opening up the casting as a talent for any specialization would be a general boost for all of them. But warlock and zealot repsectively get the proper caster level scaling spells per day. ANyone else taking casting get the current super muted spells per day listed in the feats (i.e. avenger or a warlock takes divine casting 1 and 2, they only get the spells per day listed in the current training 1 and 2. but a zealot taking arcane training 1 and 2 get more casting).

Maybe (as someone else suggested) give zealot the scaling caster level spells per day and channel. Give the warlock Scaling spells per day and mystic bolt (or a weaker version with no +lv, and they have to take the talent for that).
Keep avengers full bab, keep the sneak attack ish thing stalker gets. Make a talent that gives you a die or two of sneak attack ish thing (that stalkers can't take) so the other classes could pick up very little amount (depending on how many talents they want to spend on it).

Doing this lets anyone pick any talent, while still being far far better at them if they are the proper specialzation.

Make mystic bolt work off caster level. (in avenger and stalker caster level is vigilante class level, and they get 1/2 lv damage. Zealot scales of their caster level but still gets 1/2.) This would allow warlock or zealots who have caster levels to multiclass a bit if they want and still retain some scaling.

Give warlock no failure in light armour, and then make talents (or talents that give the feat arcane training) that remove casting failure in light, then one in med, and then one in heavy.

Doing all this makes a more even class with regards to specializations. a hell of a lot more cool unique options and ability to build. and

[Helcack]

Thanks for the find Zwordsman, I could definitely see that as being a way to make it better. I actually thought that the suckerpunch talent that the avenger gets was supposed to be a kind of non-lethal sneak attack(that works on everything not immune to non-lethal instead of the sneak attack ability) with a bit more restriction. If they put less restrictions on it and made it a general talent then that could be in line with the sneak attack talent you mention. For my spells prepared I gave them 1/2 and let the talents make up the other half. Mystic bolt working off caster level seems like a good idea though. I don't agree with giving the Zealot channel as then it just feels like a weird cleric, maybe a new ability is in order for them? Giving warlock no failure in light armour definitely seems like a good idea though.

[Zwordsman]

New ability would work for the zealot..
Honestly I havne't a clue what to give them... Channel was what someone else suggested.

could I guess give them a negative or positive sorta attack. LIke what that sorcere bloodline gets

"Heavenly Fire (Sp): Starting at 1st level, you can unleash a ray of heavenly fire as a standard action, targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. Against evil creatures, this ray deals 1d4 points of damage + 1 for every two sorcerer levels you possess. This damage is divine and not subject to energy resistance or immunity. This ray heals good creatures of 1d4 points of damage + 1 for every two sorcerer levels you possess. A good creature cannot benefit from your heavenly fire more than once per day. Neutral creatures are neither harmed nor healed by this effect. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
"

Something like that but altered.
Like divine damaging, but highly muted or limited use healing. 1d4+1/2 level of divine damage , or 1d4+1/2 lv healing (but restricted times per day of this function)...
Either does both, but limited usage or make them chose one of the two functions but more uses than otherwise.

Maybe 1d6 or4+1/2lv divine damage on target (maybe make it positive or negative choice) with the ability to heal the other side (positive or negative) but any oen thing can only be healed once per day per 5 zealot levels

it would need a lot of tailoring to fit. and honestly healing doesn't feel very.... zealot like.. but my perception of zealot is a bit specific

Overall I really feel like this class would work better if it was really just "one class" instead of 4 muted ones. Or better as 4 entirely seperate classes. As it stands it just feels weird.. jus out of the norm i guess. not that out of the norm is bad always.

[Helcack]

I agree that it does feel rather disparate from the norm, I like it in some ways but also agree that it is a bit off-putting seeing that the ability you want is not compatible within the class you chose because you need some spellcasting instead of full BAB. Maybe you could give zealot's a sort of favoured enemy ability against those with faiths who oppose hers?
Zealot's Fury (Ex): At 1st, 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels the Zealot receives a +2 sacred bonus on damage rolls, to the DC's of spells she casts, on sense motive, knowledge (religion), and knowledge (local) checks targeting or regarding any faith that is diametrically opposed to her own. Ex: A zealot of Iomedae(LG) would receive these bonuses vs. any enemy that worships a Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Evil, or Neutral Evil God, and when trying to learn about these religions or people who worship them the zealot would receive the bonus on knowledge and sense motive checks.

[Zwordsman]

I don't know enough about the religions of pathfinder to really give a good judgment of that idea. Doesn't sound horrible.. unless you fight godless folks.

Most of my games have been home games, some in setting some out of setting, but I've rarely interacted with gods or religions.

Could give them a limited use "Declare Hertic" that works like that but has some sorta restrictions per day thing. Sorta like a mutated Smite Evil-Favored enemy thing..

I really honestly love this class so far.. but I really think it needs to open up or close off more. but I am biased.. I have real issues with having options being cut off arbitrarialy..
Choosing a specialization doesn't feel like chosing a sorcerer's bloodline or awizards school.. It feels like I lose soo much more from any one choice.. I guess because those other choices are just smaller things compared to the whole class chasis. and this is basically switching out the whole chasis, but being next to that other one and seeing all the special features (leather seats, specialty rims what have you) that you could have gotten.. but can't now.

If they were seperate classes you could at least multiclass if you wanted to make a monstrosity..
but rather than forcing another situation where people want to multiclass (and probalby suck)
This could be an AMAZING oppertunity to try something soooo new and create a super modular class that you can build what you want out of.
and due to the vigilante/social mechanics built in? You really could use it how you want to. and build exactly what you want.

It almost feels sad to see the possibilty and not be able to grasp it. It would take an immense amount of work to get this well done and balanced..

It would allow a player to build exactly what they want though, and even replicate some prestige classes that are sadly very out of date. and even combine really well with certain out of date prestige classes in such a way that it elevates them. (trickster and pathfidner chronicler comes to mind)

[Helcack]

I like this class a lot too, which is why I'm so harsh on it. This could be my favourite class of all time(depending, I really like the Kineticist and Inquisitor too). I like the Declare Heretic ability actually, as then it could be opened up to include anyone who is of a differing faith or with the separatist archetype. I will admit that I am a sucker for prestige classes, my favourites being Evangelist and Mammoth Lord as I feel like they are worth what you give up in most cases(especially Mammoth Lord, I really think that prestige class was well designed to allow people to focus on their animal companions as super-beasts). I would actually like differing capstones for each specialization, that would be super cool.

[Zwordsman]

Yeah.

Honestly I think either sepreating or super combining them is the choice I prefer.
Granted I have not the remotest clue whats in the new book so it might fit perfectly in the world they give...

I've heard mention of social talents..
so if they keep the sepreation of "no battle talents while in social" thing I hope they give seperate social talents..
otherwise it'll be hard to pull off both sadly... as a caster at least, maybe not the other two I've looked at them less.

I still love the idea of making them insanly modular is my favorite.

So far this, and the mesmerist look like my favorite classes for the future.
otherwise alchemist so far. I can only really enjoy classes that can do a little of everything..(I'd rather not be great at one or a few things but good at everything).

So I really hope this class is good.

and I really hope they keep the social-vigilante thing as it is now. Meaning. I do NOT want any hard baked into the class penalties for not mainting them seperatly. It allows you to play batman or superman style. Or play Ironman. Hide it or just be blatent.
That way it fits in any kind of game.. and its up to the GM to decide the ramifications as it works in the story