Does a warlock ignore arcane spell failure for casting in armour?
They still have proficiency but nothing in the casting section mentions arcane failure so default position would be yes, they do suffer from arcane spell failure.
If this is the case then surely there is room for arcane armour casting talent. If not then some reminder text explicitly saying they can cast in armour would be nice. (In fact reminder text in either case would be useful as there is no text about armour that i can see)
They suffer arcane spell failure. Development team are currently thinking about armour casting talent. Reminder text about suffering arcane spell failure is kinda pointless since that's the default assumption for armour and spellcasters unless it gets mentioned otherwise.
By RAW, no. They are not mentioned as arcane casters.
You'd think since have Wizard spell list, sure. But nothing says they are. The only evidence is their base ability is called Arcane training but then bards are arcane casters in light armor.
So RAW so far, they can cast in armor.
When they final give playtest round two, maybe they will restrict you to no armor if you don't want ASF, but currently you aren't.
By RAW, no. They are not mentioned as arcane casters.
You'd think since have Wizard spell list, sure. But nothing says they are. The only evidence is their base ability is called Arcane training but then bards are arcane casters in light armor.So RAW so far, they can cast in armor.
When they final give playtest round two, maybe they will restrict you to no armor if you don't want ASF, but currently you aren't.
According to Mark Seifter, they are arcane spells, and they do suffer ASF.
The spells are arcane with no call-out, so they suffer ASF, as usual. We've been jotting down ideas, and Logan told me he's liking the idea of putting ignoring light armor's ASF into a talent though!Okay, I love this so far, but I have a question because there's something I think I'm missing.
How does the Warlock Vigilante spell casting interact with armor?
Guh... this is just rediculous...
Now they are making ANOTHER talent tax just to make a half-way decent caster? By the time we are done, your class is literally just going to be "Spellcasting+some decent bonus to social abilities." Why not GIVE THEM armor casting? Bards get it, Magus get it, Bloodragers get it... I mean literally every other arcane caster who is actually proficient in casting gets it. I mean, they are TRYING to make this class worse than the Bard and Magus for casting at this point...
yeah the number of Talents needed to cast spells is really bad.
If armor casting becomes a talent, chances are they would make a SECOND talent just to use medium armor, then just to cast in medium you would need:
Arcane Training II
Arcane Training III
Arcane Training IV
Arcane Training V
Arcane Training VI
Armor Casting I
Armor Casting II
That is 7 talents right there... Just to do what Magus and some bards can do built in... and that would be your class... beyond that you would have:
Social Grace (Yay for bonus to social skills or a certain type)
Renown (the sizes are so paultry that this is barely a thing..)
Startaling Appearance (so... intimidate buff)
Loyal Aid (pretty much a rogue talent)
Many Guises (i.e. this is Disguise... like, this is literally the disguise skill that is DISGUISED as a class ability...)
and Frightening Appearance... so more Intimidate!
That is it... A bunch of social skill buffs and that is it. Where as bards still get all of their performs and bardic knowledge and magus still get All of their Arcana, spell strike, spell combat, knowledge pool. I mean, the cost to simply pretend to be worse than a actual caster is rediculous...
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You would be better off taking Arcane Armor Training (and possibly Arcane Armor Mastery) rather than an Armor Casting Talent or two. You have way more available feats than you do Talents. At least, unlike an Eldritch Knight, the swift action to activate it wouldn't conflict with your best combat ability.
I'd like to see some build it ASF reduction even if it's not a complete reduction like a bard. Even a -5% every few levels combined with mithril or darkleaf could be workable. I'd REALLY hate for it to be another talent I'd need to take.
For now I think a workaround is wearing an armored coat. You take it off to buff then put it back on to fight.
EDIT: Another way to do it is to give every Arcane Training level a ASF reduction. That way, the more of those talents you take, the better you get in armored casting. IMO, that's preferable to paying for an EXTRA talent.
Maybe instead of granting armored casting, whenever the warlock gains a new level of spellcasting, she gets a (cumulative) +1 armor bonus to AC? That would also ease the cost of spending half the warlock's talents on spells.
EDIT:
Or maybe let them cast in light armor, and then grant their armor a cumulative enhancement bonus to AC whenever they take the Arcane Training talent.
Or maybe a pool of special abilities, like 3.5 binder, that they can select each day? Like +1 to AC, saves, initiative, spell damage, DR/-, bonus hit points, energy resistance, etc. etc. Could also work with the zealot spellcasting too.
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You would be better off taking Arcane Armor Training (and possibly Arcane Armor Mastery) rather than an Armor Casting Talent or two. You have way more available feats than you do Talents. At least, unlike an Eldritch Knight, the swift action to activate it wouldn't conflict with your best combat ability.
Exactly. Mithril Chain Shirt + Arcane Armor Training = 0% ASF.
It's what every Arcane Trickster does.
If they do make Light Armour Casting a talent, it would need to be more than just light armour casting since otherwise it's pathetically weak in comparison to the other talents and would never be taken.
The Warlock already has to spend 5 talents to get less spellcasting than the other 6-level casters get for free in addition to their class features. Adding the ability to cast in just light armor without ACP as a talent would barely be worth a feat, and certainly not enough to warrant a talent for the talent-starved warlock. If they eventually get casting progression for free then I wouldn't mind an ASF-removal or reduction talent so much, as it would only be 1 talent out of 10 instead of 1 out of 5.
The Warlock is in a weird place where I don't consider them primary spellcasters because of their limited spells per day and spell level progression. Their 3/4 BAB is enough that (with extensive buffing) they can sorta handle martial combat. The lack of armor makes that harder, but a conductive weapon and arcane strike make the damage good at least. Hm. I wonder how good an unarmed build would be?
Warlocks are already talent starved, as most of their talents are going to be taken up just getting sub-standard casting...
Having to take feats (Arcane armor training) and burning up your swift action each round to use it is also pretty much a deal breaker IMO.
So far...I'm seeing very little I couldn't do better with a Magus....
So far...I'm seeing very little I couldn't do better with a Magus....
It makes a better magic rogue than magus. Which is what my vigilante has been stat'd as.
Just wear that armored kilt (0%) and buff with magic vestment + properties.
So far...I'm seeing very little I couldn't do better with a Magus....It makes a better magic rogue than magus. Which is what my vigilante has been stat'd as.
How so? Sure Dervish Dance magus may not fit but there are other options like:
Accurate Strike
Arcane Cloak
Arcane Edge
Dark Shifter
Among others... and there are plenty of illusion spells on the Magus spell list and if you REALLY need a spell, a magus can steal a limited amount of spells off the wizard spell list...
I fully support the idea that warlocks should have light armor casting. This is not a 9 spell level arcane class, which are the only arcane casters (outside of prestige) who have to deal with spell failure on light armor.
Hell even Summoners get arcane armor training and they have a supersoldier on a stick helping them out.
It should Not cost a talent, especially considering the class itself has medium armor prof. and shield use.
Light armor casting would be good.
Also, if vigilantes get a talent every level it could alleviate a lot of these issues.
Reminder text about suffering arcane spell failure is kinda pointless since that's the default assumption for armour and spellcasters unless it gets mentioned otherwise.
I would say the reminder text is desired any time the spell casting class also has armor proficiency
Reminder text about suffering arcane spell failure is kinda pointless since that's the default assumption for armour and spellcasters unless it gets mentioned otherwise.I would say the reminder text is desired any time the spell casting class also has armor proficiency
Absolutely.
Before reading the confirmation posted here, and only going by the text as written in the playtest, it's not obvious. I had to assume that failure applied, but then thought, what's the point of having proficiency and not being able to use it...
I don't know what the best solution is. Given that talents are the only feature the build really gets, it would be a shame to have to use up another one.
Maybe have "Mage Armor" count as a cantrip for the Warlock?