Yeah it seems like it should be based on Charisma especially since the Divine version is.
Many classes require or benefit from more than one good ability score. It's a feature, not a flaw.
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They don't use two mental stats… at least, not really. The only thing tied to charisma is Frightening Appearance. Nothing in Warlock gives you any benefit for a decent charisma score beyond it boosting some skills. Warlock lets you play an Int-focused Vigilante effectively.
I still feel that Charisma fits better, thematically.
For a prepared caster that gained its magical expertise through study like the magus and the arcanist?
You're a 3/4 BAB, 6-level spellcaster with 6+INT skill points per level. You have great proficiencies and can cast in medium armor. You can pick a talent that grants you a good at-will ranged touch attack that you can full attack with. Being a little MAD isn't a big deal.
You're a 3/4 BAB, 6-level spellcaster with 6+INT skill points per level. You have great proficiencies and can cast in medium armor. You can pick a talent that grants you a good at-will ranged touch attack that you can full attack with. Being a little MAD isn't a big deal.
You still suffer failure chance in armor, though, so I wouldn't recommend it.
Hunters, Inquisitors and Warpriests (and Zealots) don't have failure chance at all as they're divine casters.
Warlock already has an underwhelming number of spell slots, requiring a feat in order to not have AFC in light armor despite already being a 6/9 caster is a new low.
I really hope it will be built-in instead of being a feat tax.
Arcanist as their baseline: their method of preparation and casting is more versatile than any other class, so they get fewer spells per day to compensate.
Actually Arcanists have the same number of spell slots of a Wizard. They just get spells a level later like the Sorcerer, that DOES get more spells.
But among the 6/9 casters, there's no difference between prepared and spontaneous in number of slots and progression.
In a sense the Warlock already compensates by getting the 6/9 of another spell list without mitigating factors, while the Bard and the Magus have their lists with unique spells or ones at a discount (e.g. the Bard gets Overwhelming Presence as a 6th level spell).
Also, the Zealot takes from the Inquisitor and he's spontanoues too, sot in his case the abysmal number of slots is unjustified.
Still, a talent tax is sad anyway, given that you may need to already burn half of your talents if you want to leverage your spellcasting. You may end up being a Magus without class features at this point.
THey def should at least get light armour ACF free... or have a modification in the warlock section so they lose light armour prof.
but i really want the prof so you can either make a weird caster
or make a battle caster, or even just a ray guy with some buff spells.
There was some talk on the main thread about that. I agree, it makes it confusing, since all other casters that have armor prof. get to ignore ASF for the armor they can wear.
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Actually Arcanists have the same number of spell slots of a Wizard. They just get spells a level later like the Sorcerer, that DOES get more spells.
The Wizard gets more per day from Arcane School, and that number is certainly more than the Arcanist's spells prepared per day.
But among the 6/9 casters, there's no difference between prepared and spontaneous in number of slots and progression.
Well, in terms of spells per day, Warlock Vigilantes don't have such a difference either. Actually, they have more spells per day than a Magus.
In a sense the Warlock already compensates by getting the 6/9 of another spell list without mitigating factors, while the Bard and the Magus have their lists with unique spells or ones at a discount (e.g. the Bard gets Overwhelming Presence as a 6th level spell).
This is true, but I'm not sure it's sufficient.
Also, the Zealot takes from the Inquisitor and he's spontanoues too, sot in his case the abysmal number of slots is unjustified.
Well, that depends on whether their other abilities make up for it. At the moment they probably don't, but I'd rather see additional non-spellcasting advantages than improved spellcasting.
Still, a talent tax is sad anyway, given that you may need to already burn half of your talents if you want to leverage your spellcasting. You may end up being a Magus without class features at this point.
This I agree with. At least for Light Armor...a talent for Medium wouldn't be the end of the world.
This if the wizard is not Universalist, and the arcanist don't have opposed schools.
Also the warlock ends with 4/3/3/3/2/1 slots, while the magus has 5/5/5/5/5/5
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This if the wizard is not Universalist, and the arcanist don't have opposed schools.
Also the warlock ends with 4/3/3/3/2/1 slots, while the magus has 5/5/5/5/5/5
I believe the confusion here is that the Warlock has more spells prepared per day (6/6/6/6/6/5/5), but fewer spell slots per day (4/3/3/3/2/1).
Still, a talent tax is sad anyway, given that you may need to already burn half of your talents if you want to leverage your spellcasting. You may end up being a Magus without class features at this point.This I agree with. At least for Light Armor...a talent for Medium wouldn't be the end of the world.
I don't think either should be a talent - I think if anything it should either be a Vigilante level dependent clause in the first Arcane Training, or subsequently unlocked through higher levels of Arcane Training. So basically, more along the lines of a Magus. They can cast in Medium and Heavy armor... eventually.
My biggest hang up with medium armor casting as a talent is the existence of mithral. Also, spending talents to "not suck" instead of "become awesome" generally feel bad.
I want to point out that RAW the spells they cast are not arcane, so they don't have spell faliure
My biggest hang up with medium armor casting as a talent is the existence of mithral.
Skalds already can cast spells in Medium and Magi at some point get to cast in Heavy directly. Still for most the heavy proficiency feat is needed to avoid some penalties and the movement speed is what it is.
Still we're speaking about 6/9 casters
I want to point out that RAW the spells they cast are not arcane, so they don't have spell faliure
...Huh.
You are right. It never actually states that their casting is arcane. It is only implied by the ability names and the specialization description.
Technically that is true... it is not actually listed as Arcane Spell Casting. It just says they CAN cast spells and they use a certain class' spell list :P
Guys, Logan, who wrote the ability, has posted that it's arcane in the big long thread (hard to find in there, I know). I'm sure he left out the word arcane from the ability by accident. I would request that you please don't playtest the class with a typo, as that will make your playtest data less useful.
Guys, Logan, who wrote the ability, has posted that it's arcane in the big long thread (hard to find in there, I know). I'm sure he left out the word arcane from the ability by accident. I would request that you please don't playtest the class with a typo, as that will make your playtest data less useful.
Yeah, of course. I only pointed it out so it can be fixed in the final versión.
Guys, Logan, who wrote the ability, has posted that it's arcane in the big long thread (hard to find in there, I know). I'm sure he left out the word arcane from the ability by accident. I would request that you please don't playtest the class with a typo, as that will make your playtest data less useful.Yeah, of course. I only pointed it out so it can be fixed in the final versión.
Yup, duly noted, and thanks for finding that!