Hello,
I've created a Fighter purely focussed on Combat Maneuvers... If we are against enemies that have high CMD I'd be useless... I was hoping someone could give me some advice how to avoid this problem...
I am wielding a weapon in both my hands, so I got no hands free, nor can I let go of these weapons for a split second to cast spells... So I'm going to have to focus on Spell-like abilities/supernatural abilities or spells with just a vocal component and no somatic component if I wish to try to improve my character in that way...
I hardly have any damage, because I hardly have any Strength.
My Charisma is at 7 and my Wisdom is at 8. Resulting in a -2 on Charisma and a -1 on Wisdom (which makes a Cleric not viable...)
I hope this isn't an impossible feat to do but I do not know how...
Any thoughts?
Cheers,
Sorrol
I have many thoughts. I have made some very successful Combat Maneuver characters.
Are your CMB's all that high? Normally, Combat Maneuvers are modified by Strength. Do you have Weapon Finesse on your Combat Maneuvers or something?
What maneuvers do you use?
What do you want your character to be like?
Increase your size
True Strike
Increase your Strength
Why does a Maneuver-centric character have low Strength? To succeed on maneuvers, you should be pumping Str as high as you can. An offshoot of that is that you should be decently accurate, and about half of the maneuvers in the game have Power Attack as a pre-req, so two-handing PA is your fallback.
I'm assuming there's a reason why you're not doing things that obvious way but... what is it? Knowing your build might help more.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: I have many thoughts. I have made some very successful Combat Maneuver characters.
(1) Are your CMB's all that high? Normally, Combat Maneuvers are modified by Strength. Do you have Weapon Finesse on your Combat Maneuvers or something?
(2) What maneuvers do you use?
(3) What do you want your character to be like?
(1) I've got the Agile Maneuvers feat with a Dexterity of 18, at lvl 1 (which I currently am) this results in a CMB of 5 without any extra modifiers (+1 BAB from Fighter)
(2) I mainly use Trip and Disarm, with the occasional Grapple (for instance versus a large Spider)
(3) Currently I envision my character as a cheeky guy walking into the combat whilst spinning his 2 flail-like weapons around and *dancing* on the battlefield whilst tripping and disarming opponents all over the place.
But whenever I come against a monster with high CMD this is all ineffective so I'd have to find an other way around it.
"kestral287 wrote: See message Like I said I have Agile Maneuvers.
For my build,
I'm planning on going for all Trip and Disarm feats, as well as the Great Cleave feat.
I'm currently a lvl 1 Human Fighter with Agile Maneuvers, Combat Reflexes and Exotic Weapon (Flying Talon)
A Flying Talon is a weapon from a 2007 Campaign that essentialy is a Flail but with Reach and less damage...
I have a Flail in my one hand and a Flying Talon in my other.
If you want to Trip, I recommend you Dex to damage your character, using a Tripping weapon in one hand and a dex-to-damage weapon in the other.
For someone who is good at fishing for bonuses, there is no such thing as a CMD too high for a grappler. You don't need a high strength to be a devastating grappler, especially not you since you have Agile Maneuvers.
If you dip 2 levels in Cavalier, Order of the Penitent, you gain the Expert Captor ability, which lets you Tie Up your grappled--not Pinned!--opponent, and you don't take the usual -10 to do it.
Take Greater Grapple, and you can Grapple as a Move Action. If you begin your round Adjacent to your opponent, you can Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action then Tie him Up as a Move Action, eliminating him in 1 round!
Now for your bonus Fishing
Improved Grapple +2
Greater Grapple +2
Coordinated Maneuvers+2, a Teamwork Feat, which you can take with 1 level of Cavalier, also witht the Tactician Feat, granting your allies the same feat and letting you bnefit from it even if none of your allies have it.
Take 4 levels in Alchemist
Tentacle Discovery: Grab Ability and +4 to Grapple
King Crab Tumor Familiar: +2 to Grapple
True Strike: +20 on any attack roll, including Grapple Checks.
So take the Potion Glutton Feat, which lets you drink any potable as a Swift Action. Get a Wand of True Strike, and use it on yourself then run up to your opponent. Initiate a Grapple with your +20 as a Standard Action; throw back an elixer as a Swift Action, then Tie Up your opponent as a Move Action. What Balor Demon?
The Dex Mutagen gives you a +4 Dex, for another +2 on your Grapple check.
Cat's Grace Alchemal Extract: +4 Dex, stacks with Mutagen.
Armbands of the Brawler: +1 and cheap, like 500gp.
Brawling Armor Enchantment: +2 on unarmed strikes and grapple attempts. +1 enchantment.
Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver: +2 on Maneuver of your Choice, like 4000gp
Adhesive Armor Enchantment, another +2, a 7000gp enchantment.
I'm pretty sure there's more, but right now we are up to +19 permanent bonus with the ability to buff yourself by nearly another +30.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: See message Although I really love your build! It is not exactly what I'm looking for... I don't wish to grapple since I'm the *tank* of our group... I decided to go for massive controlling tank whilst getting hit myself... If I were to grapple I'd lose a lot of my AC... Also I'm wearing Hide Armor atm which only gives a max +4 dex bonus... Which I'm at right now.
I really like the idea and the build but it doesn't fit what I'm looking for... I'm looking to make my character effective on an area that does not target CMD, preferably not even AC, thus one of the other saves...
Since Grapple is also part of the CMD checks it's not what I'm looking for... Also, I'm focussing on Trip and Disarm mostly, with Grapple as a sidestep in case either Trip or Disarm is not possible (monster with natural attack and multiple legs.)
I do not wish to damage the enemy, I got an Alchemist, a Slayer, and an Inquisitor behind me to do that (also a Cleric for the heals.)
I decided to look at the *tank* not as a meat shield but as a character that makes sure my allies don't get hit, thus Trip and Disarm... Now I need to be able to do the same job when the enemy has a high CMD... Thus that is what I'm looking for :)
Cheers,
Sorrol
Scott Wilhelm wrote: If you want to Trip, I recommend you Dex to damage your character, using a Tripping weapon in one hand and a dex-to-damage weapon in the other.
For someone who is good at fishing for bonuses, there is no such thing as a CMD too high for a grappler. You don't need a high strength to be a devastating grappler, especially not you since you have Agile Maneuvers.
If you dip 2 levels in Cavalier, Order of the Penitent, you gain the Expert Captor ability, which lets you Tie Up your grappled--not Pinned!--opponent, and you don't take the usual -10 to do it.
Take Greater Grapple, and you can Grapple as a Move Action. If you begin your round Adjacent to your opponent, you can Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action then Tie him Up as a Move Action, eliminating him in 1 round!
Now for your bonus Fishing
Improved Grapple +2
Greater Grapple +2
Coordinated Maneuvers+2, a Teamwork Feat, which you can take with 1 level of Cavalier, also witht the Tactician Feat, granting your allies the same feat and letting you bnefit from it even if none of your allies have it.
Take 4 levels in Alchemist
Tentacle Discovery: Grab Ability and +4 to Grapple
King Crab Tumor Familiar: +2 to Grapple
True Strike: +20 on any attack roll, including Grapple Checks.
So take the Potion Glutton Feat, which lets you drink any potable as a Swift Action. Get a Wand of True Strike, and use it on yourself then run up to your opponent. Initiate a Grapple with your +20 as a Standard Action; throw back an elixer as a Swift Action, then Tie Up your opponent as a Move Action. What Balor Demon?
The Dex Mutagen gives you a +4 Dex, for another +2 on your Grapple check.
Cat's Grace Alchemal Extract: +4 Dex, stacks with Mutagen.
Armbands of the Brawler: +1 and cheap, like 500gp.
Brawling Armor Enchantment: +2 on unarmed strikes and grapple attempts. +1 enchantment.
Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver: +2 on Maneuver of your Choice, like 4000gp
Adhesive Armor Enchantment, another +2, a 7000gp enchantment....
yo man you just mind Effed me. I'm about to make this my next toon.
What was that Mr.dragon?
I will ball you up son.
Don't test me.
Oh you you done gone and made me mad.
Whose yo daddy.
Well Sorrel,
It seems to me that your goal in combat should be to impose conditions on your opponent.
Most characters seek to impose the Dead condition on opponents by inflicting damage until their opponents' hit points are gone.
The goal condition I was suggesting is the Tied Up condition achieved through Grappling.
The no-more-weapons condition via Disarm is okay if your opponent needs weapons. Many don't.
The Prone condition is unpleasant to have put on you, but it doesn't just end the fight like Tied Up does. Most people who Trip also take Greater Trip and maybe also Vicious Stomp to gain Attacks of Opportunity: using the Prone condition as a stepping stone for imposing the Dead condition.
I'm a little worried that if you divide your resources on too many maneuvers, you will dilute your character.
If you really don't want to inflict damage and want to focus on imposing different conditions on your opponents, I have another suggestion:
Dirty Tricks.
Dirty Tricks can be used to impose any of all kinds of conditions on an opponent, including Blinded, Deafened, Sickened, Staggered, and Shaken. There is no size restriction on targets the way there is for Tripping. It works on armed and unarmed foes alike. VERY few opponents will be immune to ALL your tricks.
Many of the bonuses you fish for with Grappling also can be found for Dirty Tricks. You'll still be targeting your opponents' CMD, but you can make your CMB shockingly high pretty much just as I showed you.
The prerequisite for Improved Dirty Trick is Combat Expertise, but that's okay since you have been wanting for Armor Class anyway.
Dirty Tricks won't get you bound up with 1 guy the way Grappling will.
Normally, Dirty Tricks are Standard Action, but you can take the Quick Dirty Trick Feat and play your tricks as Attack Actions. You can take Great Cleave and play Dirty Tricks on every adjacent opponent!
Since you aren't worried about inflicting damage, you can be a halfling, goblin, or gnome, gaining a +1 to AC, saving throws, and attack rolls just because and then take some levels in Halfling Opportunist just for flair.
What is your intelligence? I wonder if a familiar that has UMD picks up a wand and keeps true strike cast on you via Share Spells?
Not sure if this would work or not.
This would require level dips obviously.
Caryth Derellis wrote: What is your intelligence? I wonder if a familiar that has UMD picks up a wand and keeps true strike cast on you via Share Spells?
Not sure if this would work or not.
This would require level dips obviously.
Maybe. The Share Spells Familiar ability allows you to cast "Self" spells on the familar instead of on yourself, but it doesnt' specifically say that it lets familiars cast similar spells on the master. Ask your GM if you only have one. If it's PFS, I wouldn't rely on it.
I would recommend focusing on 2-3 different combat maneuvers, that way you are still effective even if something is immune to one of your combat maneuvers. I would recommend the following: Dirty trick, Trip, and Reposition. Dirty trick is incredibly versatile, with the cost that the drawback can be removed by the target (although greater dirty trick makes that cost somewhat expensive). Trip limits a target's mobility, as they are giving up their movement just to get up. Reposition lets you move targets around into things like flanks or to set up your allies with positioning (it's also handy for moving allies out of a flank or corner spot btw). If I were to add in a 4th, it would probably be disarm.
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