Trying to work out an idea for a Horizon Walker / Slayer with Dimensional Savant

[Torbyne]

Is it possible to make a Horizon Walker sneak attack build? the pieces look like they are all there but it doesnt come online until ridiculously late in the game (9th for dimension door) and then all of a sudden you need 4 feats to pull it off. Can the concept of a nightcrawler-esque teleport and stab character be better realized some other way?

I thought as far as Slayer 6/Horizon Walker 3 with massive retraining but i dont like it, nothing feels like an organic growth concept. I know how i want to RP and this wouldnt work. Can anyone point me in a better direction?

[gustavo iglesias]

What makes that char un confortable forma you? That's a good start

[Secret Wizard]

Yeah, tell us the deal breakers.

[GozrehTime]

Is this for a home game? While the FAQ regarding spell-like ability qualification for feats has been rescinded, it sounds like that's not an issue for you. Thus, perhaps it would make sense to try the old "[d]ip into teleportation subschool wizard" trick, or, if you're okay with waiting until seventh level, using variant multiclassing.

I would go with the former, simply because 1) you need your feats for this build and 2) it allows you to start taking the feats sooner.

This also feels really organic: you're a swift-footed assassin who wants to teleport around. You decide to take up a bit of wizardry, but, once you've learned how to hop around dimensions a bit, you totally stop studying; you get better at acting after you teleport (represented by taking the dimension door-related feats), but not at actually teleporting (you have but a single wizard level). It's only later, when you've gained a lot more experience, become habituated to teleporting, and truly mastered the astral plane, that your intrinsic dimension door abilities can be unlocked. Mechanically, you'll be a wizard 1/slayer X (only 5 needed for PrC qualification, but that sixth slayer level is tasty) with access to an occasional teleport trick; later, once you take the PrC, it will be clear to all the world that you have mastered the art of slipping between dimensions as a blade between ribs.

[Chess Pwn]

GozrehTime wrote:

Is this for a home game? While the FAQ regarding spell-like ability qualification for feats has been rescinded, it sounds like that's not an issue for you. Thus, perhaps it would make sense to try the old "[d]ip into teleportation subschool wizard" trick, or, if you're okay with waiting until seventh level, using variant multiclassing.

The FAQ specifically allows them to count for spells when it calls spells out by name. So having SLA dimension door qualifies as the spell dimension door for feats.

[Chess Pwn]

A monk can get the ability at lv8, and start on the feats from then.

[Pirate Rob]

Here is the build skeleton for my Dimensional Shield Slayer if you want to see one way of getting it done.

[GozrehTime]

Chess Pwn wrote:

GozrehTime wrote:

Is this for a home game? While the FAQ regarding spell-like ability qualification for feats has been rescinded, it sounds like that's not an issue for you. Thus, perhaps it would make sense to try the old "[d]ip into teleportation subschool wizard" trick, or, if you're okay with waiting until seventh level, using variant multiclassing.

The FAQ specifically allows them to count for spells when it calls spells out by name. So having SLA dimension door qualifies as the spell dimension door for feats.

Nice! I didn't realize that. The only remaining hurdle, then, is that the wizard school ability is teeeeechnically Su, not Sp, but that is really good to know!

[Torbyne]

gustavo iglesias wrote:

What makes that char un confortable forma you? That's a good start

Pros: Be friggin Nightcrawler man! (i.e. dimension door as part of a full attack and give yourself flanking to pull off sneak attacks

Cons: Cant pick up dimension door until level 9 and then you still need to get a hold of four feats, meaning ~level 13 to really pull off the trick.

I know there are a few things out there that give you a shorter range sort of dimension door and there used to be a shadow walker class that could pull off a decent Nightcrawler. I was just wondering if anyone had a similar theme build that comes online before higher levels (12+)

[TGMaxMaxer]

Half Orc Slayer 6/ Horizon Walker 3
20 pt buy: Str 18 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 7

Sacred Tattoo and Shaman's Apprentice racials to get free endurance and +1 luck to all saves.

Trait's Fate's Favored and whatever.

BAB +9 Fort +11 Ref +10 Will +8

Feats: whatever, since at level 9 you will retrain all into Dimensional chain, Agility, Assault, Dervish, Savant. Recommend Outflank Teamwork feat for the giggles when it all comes together. TWF/ITWF from Combat Styles, 3rd slayer talent Terrain Mastery if you want a 3rd, if you are fine with just the 2 from Horizon Walker you could grab the no-AoO's one to make friends happy.

3 Favored terrains, with 2/4/6 (recommended, how often are you going to be on the astral anyways?) Astral Terrain Dominance, 6 Dim Doors/day.

4 attacks, +11/+11/+6/+6 (will actually be +11/+15/+12/+12 during Savant attack, see below) Assuming no gear other than plain shortswords and no magic gear:

so, start round. Swift Dim Door, first attack +11 for d6+4; bamf to flank and attack(offhand) +15, if hits immediate studied target for +2/+2 so damage is d6+4+2d6; bamf again for +12 attack doing d6+6+2d6; bamf again (offhand) d6+4+2d6.

Not bad for naked with no magic.

[Torbyne]

Yup, thats the long and short of the dream.

If you are in a home game where you know the characters who will be showing up it also becomes worth while to look at Lookout so you can swift step and get a sneak full attack in the surprise round.

Think i'll call this character "Twitchy".

[gustavo iglesias]

Torbyne wrote:

Cons: Cant pick up dimension door until level 9 and then you still need to get a hold of four feats, meaning ~level 13 to really pull off the trick.

I know there are a few things out there that give you a shorter range sort of dimension door and there used to be a shadow walker class that could pull off a decent Nightcrawler. I was just wondering if anyone had a similar theme build that comes online before higher levels (12+)

Dimensional door is a mid to high lvl effect. It's normal not being able to do it until higher levels.

You could use retrain rules to remove 4 of your feat and get the full effect at 9, but it's logical not being able to use a 4th lvl spell at low levels

[Torbyne]

I totally get that. I decided the idea is sound, i just need to hold onto it for a game that i can reasonably expect to reach those levels.

[177cheese]

Pirate Rob wrote:

Here is the build skeleton for my Dimensional Shield Slayer if you want to see one way of getting it done.

Are you allowed to retrain endurance?

I was under the impression that if it's a prerequisite for a prestige class, you wouldn't be able to get rid of the feat unless you're also getting rid of those class levels.

I'm not too familiar with the retraining rules though.

[Eponine Lokrien Savet]

Level 1 Wizard of the Teleportation School, Dimensional Agility
Level 2 Slayer
Level 3 Slayer Slayer Trick - Ranger Combat Style, TWF, Dimensional Assault
Level 4 Slayer
Level 5 Slayer Slayer Trick - Meh, whatever. Feat: Endurance (For pre-req)
Level 6 Slayer
Level 7 Slayer Slayer Trick (now level 6 slayer, BAB 6) Dimensional Dervish
Level 8 Horizon Walker
Level 9 Horizon Walker (BaB is only +8, so no Dimensional Savant yet)
Level 10 Horizon Walker (No feat, so no Dimensional Savant)
Level 11 Slayer (Yay! Dimensional Savant!)

This gets you the main advantages by level 7 (sorry, you will need a flanking buddy for another 4 levels after that.)