Can an efficient quiver hold a halberd?


Rules Questions


Can an efficient quiver hold a halberd?

Page 146 Core Rules
Halberd: A halberd is similar to a 5-foot-long spear, but it also has a small, axe-like head mounted near the tip.

Page 511 Core Rules
Efficient Quiver
The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as six objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staves, or the like).

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

It's a stretch, but I'd probably allow it personally.

RAW...probably not. An axe is not a straight piece of wood, that big hunk of metal on the end changes things.

==Aelryinth


It all depends on what you're DM thinks is spear-like.

For a reference, spears are traditionally a rather varied array of weapons and many polearms are also counted as spears. Wikipedia lists halberd as a type of spear and a polearm. Even if you look at the spear weapon group, which sounds like a reasonable place to look for spear-like weapons, it lists tridents, tiger forks, Orc skull ram and Elven branched spear. Looking at those, halberd seems to fit right in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_types_of_spears

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It may have a long pole on the end, but a Halberd is not a spear or a staff.


LazarX wrote:
It may have a long pole on the end, but a Halberd is not a spear or a staff.

That isn't the question though, as those aren't your only choices. Is it "or the like"? That's not a yes no answer but a judgment call.


Looking at it, I'd say no. But as pointed out, that's a judgement call.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The intent is to be able to hold objects the same general size and shape as a strung bow, since drawing an unstrung bow would be useless.

As long as whatever items you put in the quiver are relatively flat in at least one dimension, halberds should fit fine, since you are referring to Pathfinder Halberds, and not some other type of Halberds.


The question shouldn't be whether it's spear-like, but whether "it's same general size and shape as a bow". I think a Halberd is really stretching that.


Strangely, Pathfinder doesn't list Halberds as being Reach weapons (even though they have the Brace property), even though the Halberd of Earth was definitely a Reach weapon. (Checked on both d20pfsrd.com and archivesofnethys.com just to make sure it wasn't a typo in one of them.)


Queen Moragan wrote:
The intent is to be able to hold objects the same general size and shape as a strung bow, since drawing an unstrung bow would be useless.

That is an assumption on your part (albeit a reasonable one in some respects). But a strung bow is definitely not the same "size or shape" as a staff or spear, an unstrung bow is however...

Talk the to GM, if this is for PFS, expect table variation and don't sink feats into a weapon that is a "grey" area.


Thanks all. It is for PFS.

The character wanted a masterwork cold iron halberd as a back-up piercing weapon. Given the possibility of table variation, I think the character will take a spear instead, though the halberd is much better for the purpose.

The "or the like" in the efficient quiver definition really throws a loop in the thinking about what fits. Does a sword fit, and if so, what kinds of swords? Great swords have long straight blades but the blade is wide and the sword has a cross guard that makes the entire sword even wider. Scimitars are quite short in comparison but have curved blades that make the overall width of the sword quite wide. Even a rapier has a fairly large basket guard. And some spears have broad flat blades at the end making the spear wide at the end (like a halberd).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
UnArcaneElection wrote:

Strangely, Pathfinder doesn't list Halberds as being Reach weapons (even though they have the Brace property), even though the Halberd of Earth was definitely a Reach weapon. (Checked on both d20pfsrd.com and archivesofnethys.com just to make sure it wasn't a typo in one of them.)

Probably to differentiate Halberds from Glaives, which are reach weapons.


There is such a thing as over-thinking that the core rule book says, for example a blunderbus?

Will it fit into an efficient quiver? If so how many will fit?

The efficient quiver is designed to hold a wide range of useful items, of general size and shape, can I hold a collection of pool sticks a short ladder or a portable ram in an efficient quiver?

I also wanted to point out that there is a difference between "spear-like" and what is actually says "six objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staves, or the like)."

So how do we define
(spears, staves, or the like)
certainly not meant to be an inclusive list, but a general guideline.


Does "hold" equate to "fits inside completely"? When you put a Longbow, Spear, or Staff into an efficient quiver, does it go completely inside, or does it stick up over the rim a little? If it sticks up over the rim, I see no problem putting a large-headed polearm into it with the head sticking up over the opening.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kazaan wrote:
Does "hold" equate to "fits inside completely"? When you put a Longbow, Spear, or Staff into an efficient quiver, does it go completely inside, or does it stick up over the rim a little? If it sticks up over the rim, I see no problem putting a large-headed polearm into it with the head sticking up over the opening.

It'd have to go completely inside to take advantage of the non-dimensional space. Remember you're sticking Six of these things into what would be one third of a quiver space.


That brings up a separate question if the space can hold "six objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staves, or the like)."

Even if you don't like it most everyone excluding trolls would allow that surely the compartment can hold 3 or 4 halberds in a space that can hold 6 spears...

Bonus question how many half-spears can it hold?


I'm sure this is up to each individual GM, with many different answers.

I personally would not allow a strung bow; it would need to be unstrung to put it in the quiver (when strung, it is definitely not ghe same general size and shape as a spear or staff).

Likewise I would not allow any weapon that is basically a staff but with a large (read: significantly wider than the haft) chunk of metal on the end (while slim chunks of metal, e.g. about as big around as the shaft, like spears are OK).

It's a quiver. It's designed for ammunition. A few thrown weapons that are long and slender, like spears and javelins can fit. Items of similar shape that are not thrown weapons, like bows and staves, must also fit if if a spear can. But that's as far as I would go with it.

Dark Archive

It's also a Wonderous Item that specifies Bows as the primary for the section - I would assume strung, useful bows, so you can pull out the appropriate one when needed in battle. Since Pathfinder doesn't really address the action for 'stringing a bow', I think this stance is supported. Since a strung longbow sized appropriately is still near character height, putting a full (non-reach) polearm of (nearly) any dimensions is completely imaginable, if not also reach ones (though that is stretching interpretation).

We are talking extra dimensional spaces after all.

Dark Archive

I think you also have to consider that Pathfinder + Common Sense for space doesn't always work. Have you ever considered the Wrist Sheath and how little sense the range of items is? It's specifically listed as 6 Bows or Similar. Does that mean I can maybe fit 7 shortbows? Or maybe 12 javelins, since they might be half the size of a longbow?

No.

6 Bows or similar items. 6 items. It's a Wonderous Item with the space specifically defined.

Could a wrist sheath holding 5 arrows presumably hold more than one wand? Common sense says yes - item description says no. Specifically: 'a wand', '5 arrows'.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

There is nothing in the rules concerning an unstrung bow.

Therefore, all bows must be considered to be strung at all times, except possibly one with the Broken condition.

The description is for items similiar in size to a bow and then lists spear, staff, etc.
It does not say items in similiar in size to a spear, which is just pole.

Why is it so difficult to believe a magic extra-dimensional space can accommodate up to 6 items no bigger than say, 60"x20"x4" (just a guess-atment)?

Do you want to put unstrung bows in it?
No problem.
Do you want to put staves in it?
No problem.
Does a magic staff count as a staff?
I think that has been established as RAW.
Does that mean all those magic staves in the CRB with their weird shapes and head-pieces will fit in an Efficient Quiver?
Would it break the rules to say things like that up to 6' tall could fit in there?
Nope, sounds fine. I don't play PFS, but I don't see why it wouldn't work there either.

Stop trying to be too realistic about it unless you want to make up a bunch of house rules concerning string/unstringing bows.

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